Clause 41 - Standards set by Secretary of State
Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Bill
3:45 pm
Mr David Lammy (Parliamentary Secretary, Department of Health; Tottenham, Labour)
To some extent, the hon. Gentleman makes my point for me. He did not mention patients in his contribution. He gave the example of the four-hour waiting period target for accident and emergency departments. I shall go on to make a distinction between standards and targets, which I do not think the hon. Gentleman has got his head around. The distinction, target and four-hour wait are about patients.
Hon. Members may all be able to think of a doctor who talks at the patient but does not really take on board how they feel, and we know about the vested interests that may exist in organisations such as the NHS. I ask the hon. Gentleman to take off his doctor's hat and think about the patient. He may not have been listening to his constituents, but the Government heard and understood them. I know that his constituents in Oxfordshire do not want to wait in an A and E department for six, seven, eight, nine, 10 or 12 hours, which was the case until a few years ago. For some people, four hours is too long.
It is right that in setting targets the Government understand the standard. The standard in this case is that people want to be seen quickly and efficiently. We
can have a discussion about the target of four hours, but the hon. Gentleman needs to understand it and not just startle us with a series of ideas, facts and contributions that really do not take on board its importance. [Interruption.] I hear hon. Members from a sedentary position say, ''Waffle.'' Well, that it may be, but it is about patients and the fact that patients do not want to sit in A and E departments.
I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman, who is a senior politician—[Hon. Members: '' No, he's not.''] The Committee corrects me. I am not as surprised as I was then. It would be wrong for the body responsible for setting standards to be responsible for assessing them. That is why we set up CHAI as an independent body.