Clause 2 - Court officers, staff and services
Courts Bill [Lords]
2:30 pm
Mr David Heath (Somerton and Frome, Liberal Democrat)
I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Illsley. I am grateful to the Minister for his response. Were the consultation under subsection (7) purely on the basis of ensuring that the contracts did not transgress subsection (5)—that was what the Minister said—and to make sure that no judicial function is unwittingly put into the contract area, that would have been a proper response. However, the actual words under subsection (7) are
''what effect (if any) the order might have on the proper and efficient administration of justice'',
which go much wider than the narrow criterion whether a judicial function has been put into the contracted-out area. I suggest that the Minister reconsiders his definitions.
I was genuinely surprised by what the Minister had to say about the wording of my amendment. I know for a fact that such formulations have been tabled by Ministers of this Government to a great number of Bills to express a provision that would allow for representation from associations, such as the Magistrates Association, but without listing specific organisations, as the provision would become redundant if the associations changed. Perhaps the Minister has been given unwise advice if he thinks that my amendment is in an inappropriate or vague formulation. It has been used before. The hon. Member for Clwyd, West (Gareth Thomas) will recall the many happy hours that we spent on the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill Committee, when a similar formulation appeared many times to provide for statutory consultees who appeared to the Secretary of State to be representative of this, that or the other.
I hear what the Minister says, but I still think that before contracting out essential support services and administrative functions it is wise to have the views of magistrates directly, rather than simply the advice of a senior judge who is not a magistrate—he might be capable of giving a professional opinion, but not a practical one. In practice, the views of magistrates will probably be heard, but I regret that a provision for that will not exist in statute. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.