Clause 2 - Court officers, staff and services
Courts Bill [Lords]
2:30 pm
Mr Christopher Leslie (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Constitutional Affairs; Shipley, Labour)
I welcome you to the Chair, Mr. Illsley. I said to Mr. O'Brien at the beginning of our proceedings this morning that it was nice to have a fair-minded and even-tempered Yorkshireman in the Chair. The same comments apply twice over.
Under the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath), the Lord Chancellor would consult persons who seem to him to be representative of the lay justices, as well as the heads of division already listed under subsection (7), before making an order to contract out under subsection (6). We consider the amendments to be unnecessary as the heads of division will be the heads of the judicial family to which the magistrates already belong. The purpose of consulting the heads of division is to ensure that no judicial function has unwittingly been prepared for contracting out and, thus, transgresses the safeguard under subsection (5). In that respect, I expect the heads of division to have regard to all of the interests of the judiciary, including the lay magistracy, when undertaking such a role.
The four senior judges are consulted to ensure that the contracting out does not, in principle, involve a judicial function prohibited by the prevention under subsection (5). They are the right people to consult, not the local board or the local magistracy. If we were to have local consultation, it would be unclear what is meant by ''representatives of the lay justices'' under the amendment. The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) highlighted that fact in his intervention. We presume that it means representatives of the Magistrates Association, but the phrase raises questions about how such a system would work, who would be the representatives, how many should there be and so on. The lack of clarify is also the reason why I am not keen to accept the amendment.
In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral, West (Stephen Hesford) who referred to local business plans and local proposals for specific contracting out, courts boards will be involved in the
business planning process. Indeed, the protection under clause 21 concerning the duty to consult lay justices on matters affecting them will also kick in at that point. There is ample protection at local level. Setting out the difference between why we have wider, in principle, consultation about ensuring that judicial functions do not come under the contracting-out capability helps to clarify why we have framed the provisions in such a way. I hope that the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome will see fit to withdraw the amendment.