Clause 2 - Court officers, staff and services
Courts Bill [Lords]
11:00 am
Mr Christopher Leslie (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Constitutional Affairs; Shipley, Labour)
I will take the hon. Gentleman's comments in the spirit in which they are intended. I
will try not to be too pedantic about the wording of this probing amendment. We believe that making justices' clerks civil servants will give them enhanced career prospects that will include the chance to work in the headquarters of the new agency, for example, or for the Department of Constitutional Affairs more generally, if they feel and we feel that that is appropriate. They will also be eligible to join the principal civil service pension scheme and will be eligible for other superannuation benefits in the same way as other civil servants.
We feel that for justices' clerks to retain their pre-existing employment status and rights and not to be civil servants in the new agency is not the way forward. The amendment has a number of unworkable elements. At present justices' clerks are appointed by magistrates courts committees and are employed under their terms and conditions. However, magistrates courts committees will no longer exist by virtue of clause 6. All justices' clerks will be transferred to the employment of the Lord Chancellor and so they would have no employer if they were not made civil servants under the provision.
In setting up the new agency, we will be applying the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) principles to the staff transfer. That means that the new employer will take the same perspective as the old and that an individual's terms and conditions from the MCCs apply on transfer to the new agency. Almost all staff will be mapped across on the same duties, at the same location, with new senior management, but with no change to their terms and conditions. However, pay and conditions might change in the future as a result of the transfer. Over time, we will be looking to harmonise terms and conditions. However, it is much too early to say when and in what circumstances. We will, of course, consult the relevant employee associations and trade unions in advance of any decisions being finalised.
Clause 29 states that a justices' clerk, while exercising an advisory or judicial function, will not be subject to the direction of the Lord Chancellor, or anyone else. Justices' clerks will, therefore, have the same statutory guarantee of independence in relation to their advisory or judicial functions as they currently have.