New clause 30 - Public Services Fund
Communications Bill
4:30 pm

Mr John Greenway (Ryedale, Conservative)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

I shall give my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford a brief opportunity to catch his breath. This morning, I pressed the point that there are many good causes in broadcasting that would value some financial support. The Minister graciously acknowledged that they were indeed good causes and, in fact, added one or two to my list. On that occasion, I suggested that the potentially substantial resources that come into Ofcom's hands from penalties or licence payments for sale of spectrum might be placed into a fund that could be used for various good causes. The Minister did not respond to my point about licence payments.

The new clause represents a slightly different approach, suggesting that an element of the licence fee might be used to make provision for, for example, research, innovative programme making, community radio, and the development of new technology for those who are hard of hearing, partially sighted or blind. The idea behind new clause 30 is rather like that in new clause 25—if its time has not yet come, it cannot be far off. Parliament has to face the fact that there is a growing discrepancy between the haves and the have-nots in the broadcasting environment. In an earlier debate, I made the point that the trend of the past few years, partly because of the licence fee increase—

Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.

On resuming—

Mr John Greenway (Ryedale, Conservative)

Time is of the essence, so I shall draw my remarks to a close. There is a problem of rich and poor in broadcasting. The BBC, with its £2.5 billion in licence fees, is in the rich category, but many organisations seeking to innovate in broadcasting could do with some help. A small contribution from the licence fee would not go amiss. I commend to the Minister the idea that if just 1 per cent. of the licence fee were taken by way of a levy and placed into a public services fund of the sort that we suggest, it would provide a fund of £25 million. It has been obvious from our debates that a great deal of good could be done with that money, and the sum would be a relatively small loss to the BBC, given its overall financial structure.

As this is likely to be the last time that I speak in this Committee, may I say what a great pleasure it has been to work under your chairmanship, Mr. Gale, and that of your co-Chairman, Mr. Atkinson. This has been an harmonious Committee, and I hope that, in that spirit, the Minister might have something positive to say about new clause 30, too.

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford, Conservative)

We do not have time to go into the considerable merits of the new clause, although I would have liked to spend a while setting them out. However, perhaps we will have another opportunity to do so.

With your permission, Mr. Gale, I should like to add to what my hon. Friend the Member for Ryedale has said, and express the Opposition's thanks to you and Mr. Atkinson, as well as Mr. O'Brien, who valiantly chaired one or two sittings when neither you nor Mr. Atkinson could be here. I should also like to thank the Hansard reporters, who have had a quite difficult job at times, the messengers, and all others involved.

Mr Michael Fabricant (Lichfield, Conservative)

Does my hon. Friend agree that we should not leave out the Clerk, who was previously Clerk of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport? He has shown considerable restraint in keeping quiet and in keeping the Chairman in order.

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford, Conservative)

I am not sure that the Clerk with agree with that interpretation, but I was indeed about to mention him.

Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet, Conservative)

Order. The Clerk has advised me that the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) is out of order.

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford, Conservative)

The Clerk knows on which side his bread is buttered. Our thanks go to him, and to all those who have sat through our proceedings. I hope that they found them stimulating.

Mr Andrew Robathan (Blaby, Conservative)

And the civil servants.

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford, Conservative)

Yes, and the Minister's officials. We Committee members have had our arguments, but several people who have read the report of our proceedings have mentioned how good-humoured the Committee has been, and I think that they are right; certainly, I have found it to be an enjoyable experience. I would like to thank both Ministers for the way in which they have responded to our suggestions and even accepted one or two tiny ones.

Dr Kim Howells (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport; Pontypridd, Labour)

I am afraid that the proposal embodied in the new clause would not self-evidently represent good value for money for licence fee payers. It would involve creating a whole new bureaucracy for the power to spend money. The hon. Member for Ryedale has calculated that his proposals would make approximately £25 million available, but there would be no obvious means of accountability, especially as the National Audit Office could not get in there.

Next year, we will begin the charter review, and the Government are content for the issues that we touched on today to be examined more fully then. At this stage, however, we do not think that the amendment could be justified within the framework of the BBC's role and constitution, or that it would add anything useful to the arrangements set out in the Bill. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will see fit to withdraw the motion.

While I am on my feet, may I, on behalf of my hon. Friends, especially the Minister for E-Commerce and Competitiveness, thank all hon. Members for making our time in Committee such a constructive and enjoyable long-running process. With your able chairmanship, Mr. Gale, and that of your colleagues Mr. Atkinson and Mr. O'Brien, who chaired one sitting, we have worked hard. It has been a pleasure to do so.

Who would have thought after seeing the 144 recommendations of the Joint Committee that it would be possible to make such a good Bill even better? However, that is what we have done. That is in no small measure down to the hard work of the Committee as a whole, to which we pay tribute. We sat for some 65 hours in 26 sittings. Of the 693 amendments, 46 new clauses and one new schedule that were tabled, I understand—the hon. Member for

Blaby will correct me if I am wrong—that more than 130 amendments and four new clauses were tabled by the Government. I will not give a precise figure, in case he has laid another bet.

We thank the Opposition for their positive and constructive approach to the Bill. We are grateful for their support for most of the provisions, and we are pleased to see that the majority of the Bill has met with cross-party support. We also recognise their efforts to make improvements. We have appreciated them, and I think that the Bill is much the better for them. I trust that they feel that their hard work has been worth while.

Finally, Mr. Gale, we join you in thanking the Clerk, our long-suffering Hansard reporters, the Doorkeepers and the police officers for all their work and support during the proceedings. The other human beings in the Room have had to suffer their way through our proceedings, too, and I pay homage to them. I invite all hon. Members, as well as the Clerk, Hansard reporters, the Doorkeepers and police officers who have seen duty in Committee to join us for refreshments in the appropriately licensed Inter-Parliamentary Union Room on Tuesday 11 February, from 6 pm to 8 pm, to celebrate the end of our proceedings.

Mr. Gale, I have enjoyed myself very much. I thank you so much for your chairmanship. I am sure that I echo the sentiments of all members of the Committee in saying that we have got a great deal of value out of the Bill.

Mr Nick Harvey (North Devon, Liberal Democrat)

May I thank you, Mr. Gale, your fellow Chairmen, the Clerk, and all who have been involved in what has been a very constructive process. I look forward to taking up the Minister on his hospitality next week.

Mr John Greenway (Ryedale, Conservative)

In the face of such glowing tributes from the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw the motion.

Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet, Conservative)

On behalf of all the Chairmen, I add my thanks to those that have already been expressed to the Officers of the House, the police, the Hansard writers, the Clerk and all those who make our work—which is not always easy—bearable and possible. I also thank all hon. Members for the courtesy and good humour with which they have conducted themselves throughout our proceedings. It has been a pleasure chairing this Committee.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.

Committee rose at one minute to Five o'clock.