New Clause 2 - Fraud
State Pension Credit Bill [Lords]
11:15 am
Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere, Conservative)
I shall certainly look very carefully at the Minister's considered remarks and the strategy that he outlined. However, I emphasise that we need information to determine whether the strategy is working. We need benchmarks for current levels of fraud that are based on robust evidence before we can determine what impact the strategy is having.
I agree with the generality of the Minister's comments about older people, and about people who commit fraud because of complication. However, I was not quite with him when he said that people could come into fraud through no fault of their own. I know what he was getting at, but, in order for fraud to be committed there must be intent to commit fraud, which is what he later said.
In his earlier remarks, the Minister was possibly referring to people who become involved in fraud even though their applications were not fraudulent. One way or another, they find themselves trapped in fraud. There is a greater risk of that happening when things are complicated, because people are exposed to more temptation. We must always be careful that, when an allegation of fraud is made, it is proven according to strict standards, the intent to defraud is proved and that we all understand what that is.