Clause 6 - Duty to specify assessed income period
State Pension Credit Bill [Lords]
11:15 am
Mr Ian McCartney (Minister for pensions, Department for Work and Pensions; Makerfield, Labour)
The hon. Gentleman is on board in the sense that he recognises the common sense of the Government's position, but he could not quite overcome his prejudices against the proposals and find a reason not to jump overboard. I hope that when he does, he will have a lifebelt.
I perceive a wee bit of movement among the Liberal Democrats. We were told this morning that more than half Britain's pensioners would face a nasty means test. The hon. Member for Northavon then recalculated and reduced the figure to a proportion of men aged 60 to 64—he has a point—and turned the argument round. He now accuses us of not being intrusive enough. He says that if the period remains five years, at the end of that period—[Interruption.] I apologise for paraphrasing the hon. Gentleman; I shall give way to him in a moment. He says that at the end of that period, huge amounts of benefit would be unclaimed because we had not been in contact. I thought that Liberal Democrat policy was that we were being far too intrusive. He cannot have it both ways.
The Pension Service will send all pension credit recipients an annual statement that shows their entitlement and how it is calculated. Each year, therefore, they will know how much they receive and whether that amount is correct. Regularly and unintrusively, we shall maintain contact with them to tell them what they are receiving and ask them whether the amount is correct and whether there has been a change in their circumstances. If the amount is not right because of error or a change of circumstances, that is where the beauty of the scheme kicks in. It turns the current system on its head and becomes an advocate on older people's behalf. The system will operate effectively on behalf of older people.
The hon. Member for Northavon must sort out in his mind what he wants us to do—to have an ongoing, transparent and grown-up relationship with older people through the Pension Service, or to go back to the past, when we had no relationship other than the draconian one of which he paints a picture. We are moving on, modernising and considering the matter in terms of the two components of income assessment that apply at the start of someone's basic state pension.
The Liberal Democrats do a disservice to pension credit—and, more importantly, to older people. They tell older people that they will be means-tested, screwed into the ground, kicked from pillar to post and have the thought police, the financial police and the Metropolitan police all onto them. That is what the hon. Member for Northavon throws into the argument. Perhaps I exaggerate—I am paraphrasing—but that is the point that the Liberal Democrats have
reached. They are desperate to ensure that pensioners do not regard the proposal as a beneficial and major change on their behalf.
If pensioners do regard it in that way, as they increasingly do and will, the hon. Gentleman's arguments will be threadbare in the extreme, and all that will be left is a simple question that pensioners will ask them: ''Would you take it away?'' That is rather like what happened with the winter fuel payment, as hon. Members may remember. Pensioners got the payment, and when the Liberal Democrats were asked whether they would take it away, they changed their policies overnight. They will do the same with pension credit.
Mr. Webb rose—
Annabelle Ewing rose—