Clause 75 - Criminal lifestyle
Proceeds of Crime Bill
11:00 am
Mr Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
I hope that that is the case, but I seek clarification from the Minister about the effect of subsection (2)(e). In the Government's laudable intention to ensure that no one escapes the consequences, other people will be swept up by the provisions.
The hon. Member for Beaconsfield referred to amendment No. 280. It and a subsequent amendment are attempts to ensure that a de minimis arrangement applies. If the Minister wants to ensure that those who hitherto escaped justice are caught—something that the Liberal Democrats support—and wants to catch the Mr. Bigs, the pillars of society who have managed to evade justice because they employ accountants, lawyers and other paraphernalia that enable them to get round the law, he should have no objection to a de minimis level of £5,000. After all, the Mr. Bigs of this world are not interested in figures of less than that. That provision is an alternative to amendment No. 271, which uses slightly different terminology.
What is the objection to a de minimis level? The Bill is surely concerned with catching big criminals. To date, the Minister has not convinced me that such a provision is not required. He wants to make the provisions as wide as possible in the event that in circumstances that he cannot foresee someone may gain a sum of less than £5,000—a level 1 offence—and be swept up by the Bill. That is not good enough. I seek justification why a de minimis level is not appropriate.