Clause 8 - The independent police complaints commission
Police Reform Bill [Lords]
10:30 am
Mr Norman Baker (Lewes, Liberal Democrat)
I do not know how to follow that, but I shall do my best. It has taken my breath away.
I begin by saying for the sake of clarity that the Liberal Democrats do not object in principle to particular functions being undertaken by the private sector. It depends on the functions, safeguards and conditions. I was interested by the comments of the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) about how the Prison Service—I shall not talk about it too much, just as an example—was inefficient in delivering prisoners some years ago. However, it appears that the private sector is also inefficient in delivering prisoners, judging from the comments that we heard this morning.
The Under-Secretary talks about potential savings: yes, a paper exercise will bring potential savings and I agree that a police officer should not be tied down for 10 hours at a time transporting prisoners, but we must have a contract and a system that work, otherwise, we will have a hived-off private sector arrangement that is not subject to a tight contract and in which people are employed on poor wages. Whatever the problems, employees will not feel that they have to turn up each day. It will end with a van not turning up to escort a prisoner, a police officer—in Lewes or elsewhere—having to look after the prisoner at short notice, and the escalation of Crown court costs because the prisoner has not turned up. This morning I heard that cost estimated at £8,000 a day. What appears as a small saving on paper can, without proper implementation, amount to a huge cost.
I have serious concerns about new clause 9. I am not sure, Mr. Stevenson, whether we can vote on it separately, but my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Dorset and North Poole and I would like to do so.
We cannot agree to what is set out in this part of the Bill without knowing exactly what powers will be available and what safeguards will be in place, which will be the subject of debate on later parts of the Bill. We seem to be asked to give carte blanche. We can talk about the principle here, but its acceptability will be governed by the details to be debated later.
One concern rehearsed at length—I shall deal with it briefly—is about dealing with complaints. It is not clear—I am unsure whether the Under-Secretary's comments were welcome—whether complaints against private sector individuals will be brought within the remit of the IPCC. People employed by private companies are subject to separate regulations, so I am uncertain how the matrix will work. Will the Under-Secretary provide further clarification?
Intimate body searches are a sensitive issue. The Under-Secretary should recognise that many people are queasy about allowing people who are not formally police officers to carry out such searches. My noble Friend Lord Dholakia raised the matter in another place. He said that the issue of body searches in police stations was, in his experience, one of the reasons for the sparking of severe race tensions in Britain's inner cities. My noble Friend knows about these issues and we should not skate over the matter. The Under-Secretary must recognise the degree of sensitivity and respond to the earlier intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Dorset and North Poole.
What happens if the private contractor fails to live up to the required standards? If I understood him correctly, the Minister said that if an individual employee were found wanting, the method of dealing with the problem would be to delete him from the contract. I am unsure what would happen if a three or five-year contract were signed with a private sector company that turned out to be hopeless. When Group 4 started to operate in the prison service, it was the subject of criticism and ridicule across the country. Other examples of hopeless private sector outsourcing could be cited. Indeed, the Criminal Records Bureau seems to be going down that road at present. What can be done if a contractor proves ineffective and useless? Can a contract be terminated early, or is it simply a question of tweaking? That is important because otherwise we shall end up with more police time being used for the reasons to which the hon. Member for Wrexham alluded.
I should put on record that I am unhappy about the way in which the Government have introduced new clause 9. The Under-Secretary might have read the piece in The Guardian—I know that Labour Members pay great attention to The Guardian.