Clause 29 - Statutory dispute resolution procedures
Employment Bill
2:30 pm
Mr Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central, Labour)
The hon. Gentleman made precisely that point earlier and I am not trying to impute words to him. I had hoped that, as with our debate on workers and employees, when the hon. Gentleman seemed to be moving our way, he was urging the Government to go beyond the schedule towards the ACAS code, as I shall urge the Minister to do.
It is absolutely legitimate for my hon. Friend to place before us the opportunity to debate changes. The hon. Gentleman was a little dismissive as to whether 90 minutes' scrutiny in Committee would make a difference, but the important point with majority governance, as in this country, is not whether Governments get their business through—they do, as they should, because they have a majority—but whether they must put it to proper scrutiny with the possibility of full public knowledge of what has taken place. That is the important issue and the Minister has ensured that there will be adequate opportunity for the Opposition to pick up any sleight of hand. Changes will not simply slip through bureaucratic mechanisms. The hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge will have every opportunity to debate them.
The important issue is the disparity between the new schedule and the existing ACAS code. As the Committee is aware, the ACAS code has an effective force and the tribunals are presently bound by it. It has what is tantamount to legal status. There is certainly a gap between the present schedule 2 and the ACAS code. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us why that gap exists, and why the code was not adopted as schedule 2. Many of us would argue the code has provided the status quo in tribunals in the past, so why not simply lift it across so that everyone knew where they stood.
We could have had a debate with Opposition Members about how they wanted to diminish the ACAS code. It would have seemed right to me to have had a debate that looked at the ACAS code, and to have said where it was too luxurious and where it was too protective of employers or employees. We could have also considered where we needed to reduce the code. Instead, we got something rather different.
The fundamental point is that, if it is legitimate to offer something different to the existing code, the change will, for the first time—and I applaud it—oblige all employers to offer a disciplinary grievance system to their employees. Our concern, however, is that not only does it fail to come up to the ACAS standard, but that it may be used in place of the ACAS code before the tribunal. Anybody arguing for either party in the tribunal is bound to argue that Parliament has decreed that schedule 2 is the basic standard. They will say that the ACAS code goes beyond that standard, and it is no longer legitimate. Yet the tribunal must now be bound by the ACAS code, and that is a real concern.
My overall point, then, is to ask why the ACAS code has not been put into the Bill. Will that not result in the erosion of use of the ACAS code before the tribunal?
My final point, as I promised the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge, is that I must urge the Minister to make it clear to the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge that he will introduce the ACAS code at the earliest opportunity in place of the existing schedule.