Clause 22 - Employment Tribunals
Employment Bill
5:15 pm
Mr Alan Johnson (Minister of State (Employment and the Regions), Department of Trade and Industry; Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, Labour)
The EEF is a marvellous organisation. I had dinner with its representatives only the other night, and we discussed all the issues. It accepted, as the Committee has so far with the amendments that we have debated, that it is right to make cost awards against representatives who act unreasonably and that they should not be able to take the money from their clients. We have accepted that people should be awarded costs for preparation of a case, even if they have not taken legal representation into an employment tribunal.
Those are sensible measures that, with the increase in the deposit and the £10,000 penalty limit, will deter weak and vexatious cases. We have no desire to extend the definition. Indeed, during our consultation, no one argued that we should, for the reasons given by the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge. He is a decent man—[Hon. Members: ''Hear, hear.''] That's about as good as it gets. He said, rightly, that we must strike a balance. The potential costs should not deter people who believe that they have a justified case or grievance from going to employment tribunals.
There are many other measures. We are talking about striking out weak cases at pre-hearings, which we shall discuss under other aspects of the Bill. Taken together, all those are sound, sensible and practical ways to proceed.
The hon. Gentleman asks what difference they will make. That is difficult to calculate. We say in the regulatory impact assessment that the measures in clause 22 will probably prevent up to 500 such cases from being brought. That is quite significant compared with the number of vexatious cases. The clause has not been designed to make employers feel that employees with relevant and arguable cases will not bother bringing them because they are so concerned about the cost award that may be made against them. We are not in that ball game, as we have emphasised repeatedly.
Hon. Members have raised interesting and helpful points about the provisions, and I am grateful for their contributions. When we draw up regulations, we shall see what can be learned from the experience of civil courts, where such procedures exist. I hope that Members are reassured that neither the intention nor the effect of the clause is to deter workers from using the employment tribunals system to seek redress if their rights have been infringed.
The Government have a responsibility to ensure that rights are enforceable and that the justice system is accessible and fair to all parties. We must minimise the potential for abuse and ensure that wronged parties are properly compensated for their loss if the system has been abused. That last point is particularly relevant to the clause At the same time, we have a responsibility to the taxpayer to provide an efficient employment tribunals system. Along with other measures, the clause will help to achieve that end.
The hon. Gentleman asked about funding mechanisms. They are an important element of the matters being considered by the employment tribunal system taskforce under the chairmanship of Janet Gaymer. Judge Prophet, the president of employment tribunals in England and Wales, and Colin Milne, the president of the employment tribunals service in Scotland, are also members of that august body.
The hon. Gentleman asked what difference the Leggatt review would make. It did not warn against changes to the cost rules. Leggatt considered full cost recovery and the loser paying the winner's costs. The review is of the whole tribunal system, not just employment tribunals. We do not think that anything that emerges from Leggatt will necessitate any speedy changes to the regulations that will be produced in due course; we think that these measures stand alone. For all those reasons and others, I commend the clause to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.