Clause 22 - Employment tribunals

Part of Employment Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 11:45 am on 11 December 2001.

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Photo of Mr Brian Cotter Mr Brian Cotter Shadow Spokesperson (Business, Innovation and Skills), Shadow Spokesperson 11:45, 11 December 2001

In order to highlight the issue, we are deleting the provision without having something to put in its place. How would the employer calculate costs, for example? That is an important issue. Would the costs include time spent by other employees, such as human resources department managers, in preparing the case? Would the options include time

spent by other employees such as the human resources department managers in preparing the case or an estimate of productivity lost, as can sometimes occur? That calls to mind an incident that happened in a bizarre company before I took over as managing director some years ago. Someone had been sent to get a stamp and had lost it in the grounds. Believe it or not, the previous managing director stopped the whole factory to look for that 10 shilling stamp. Perhaps that was considered a lot of money then, but a lot of time was wasted. If someone is not producing, how can one calculate staff productivity?

Would an employer include time spent by witnesses giving evidence in a fellow employee's case, for example? The scope of a claim could effectively be limitless for employers. It is always difficult to apportion costs in a company in a fair and reasonable manner. So many factors could be included; perhaps they should be, but perhaps not.

From an applicant's point of view, the potential to receive costs for preparatory work is much more limited—in many cases to the value of his or her time. How can such costs be assessed in a fair manner? How would the costs or time of someone who is unemployed be assessed?

The Law Society is held in high repute, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk can attest. His constructive contributions demonstrate how much we need to take note of what it has to say. It identified the lack of experience that employment tribunals have in awarding costs. Out of 27,000 cases, costs were awarded in only 247. Despite the small number of awards, costs must be awarded in a reasonable manner. In addition, costs are currently awarded on legal grounds, on the basis of civil jurisdiction established by the civil courts. Tribunals will now be asked to award costs on a non-legal basis, without that framework. That is a further change.

The concerns raised by the Law Society, the legal action group and the TUC must be addressed if we are to ensure that the system benefits both parties. I ask the Minister to clarify the system that will be specified in the regulations to calculate such awards and to say how it will safeguard the rights of both the applicant and the respondent.