Clause 22 - Employment tribunals
Employment Bill
11:15 am
Mr Alan Johnson (Minister of State (Employment and the Regions), Department of Trade and Industry; Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, Labour)
I do not want to debate discrimination. However, I am sure that we will not be dragged before the European Court of Human Rights for targeting paid representatives who make a financial gain from cases. I love the concept of the friendly barrister who is a neighbour and offers to work for nothing—that is glorious. If the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge can let us know where those friendly barristers live, we would beat a path to their doors, and we would no longer have so many problems.
The hon. Gentleman raised important points about how we define the provision, as did the hon. Member for North Norfolk and my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West. We are in danger of losing perspective: the tribunal judiciary is clear about where the problem lies. It deals with such cases day in and day out, and its representation to us concerned paid representatives. It has not moved away from that assertion one iota—not one smidgeon. It is not necessary to read the TUC brief—I have not read it, but the TUC is a marvellous organisation, and its literature is highly recommended. The judiciary does not note a problem in its response to the ''Routes to Resolution'' document.
I repeat the point made at the last sitting by the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare. Until this inspiration struck me, my response was foggy. We are out to get the no win, no fee brigade as well. That is an important part of the measure.
We intend the regulations on wasted cost to exclude the not-for-profit sector: trade unions, law centres, citizens' advice bureaux and employers' advisory bodies. We intend them to apply to representatives who charge for their services, including solicitors, barristers and employment advisers. However, hon. Members are correct to point out that poor conduct may come from all types of representative, paid or unpaid; we accept that. We want to encourage all representatives to act responsibly and to accept responsibility for their actions.