Schedule 13 - The general teaching councils for england and wales
Education Bill
4:45 pm

Mr Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)

I beg to move amendment No. 503, in page 164, leave out lines 23 to 26.

Mr Win Griffiths (Bridgend, Labour)

With this we may discuss the following amendments: No. 504, in page 164, leave out lines 28 to 29.

No. 505, in page 164, line 30, leave out 'provisional registration or full'.

No. 506, in page 164, line 31, leave out 'at the relevant time'.

No. 507, in page 164, line 31, leave out 'or were'.

No. 508, in page 164, leave out lines 33 to 40.

No. 509, in page 165, leave out line 3.

No. 510, in page 165, leave out lines 20 to 22.

No. 511, in page 166, leave out lines 10 to 12.

No. 512, in page 166, leave out lines 16 to 18.

No. 513, in page 167, leave out lines 16 to 19.

Mr Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)

This string of amendments may be the last business of the day, but it is important. When the GTC was set up under the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998, it was envisaged that it would quickly become the master of its own destiny. The amendments challenge the Government's assumption that they can add new categories to registration by the GTC, two of which the Government hinted that they would like to have. One of those categories is trainee teachers and the other is teachers from overseas.

The GTC is either an organisation for teachers who have the necessary qualifications to be registered, or it is not. If categories are going to be added to it, it will lose its power to act on behalf of the teaching profession. The adding of categories diminishes the GTC's authority and brings into question the fees that trainee teachers or teachers from overseas will pay. I respectfully suggest that only those who are fully registered should be members of the GTC. The Government may feel that there are powerful reasons to have additional categories, such as trainee teachers

and teachers from overseas. In that case, the Minister will make a case for them. I strongly argue that now that the GTC is up and running, it should be the master of its own destiny. If it is making a case for additional categories on behalf of the teaching profession, let the Minister make that case. I do not believe that the GTC has made that case. This is coming from the Government. I hope that the Government will not press ahead with granting new categories for registration with the GTC.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West, Conservative)

Earlier I pressed the Minister for further clarification on specific points relating to the Government's intention on the status of provisional registration and the treatment of overseas trained teachers, and whether the Government intend all overseas trained teachers should be registered or only those seeking qualified teacher status. Several other questions arise with regard to the application of the registration rules. The Minister indicated earlier that he would add a little flesh to the debate and we look forward to hearing his remarks.

Mr Stephen Timms (Minister of State (School Standards), Department for Education and Skills; East Ham, Labour)

We seek to introduce the new category of provisional registration with the GTC in the interests of extending the advantages of regulation of the teaching profession. We intend to extend that form of registration by regulations to overseas trained teachers and trainee teachers, whether they are embarking on a course of initial teacher training or engaged in employment-based training that leads to qualified teacher status. In that way, such teachers would be brought within the framework of the GTC's disciplinary functions and we will want to consider with the GTC the extent to which that will be appropriate.

I hope that the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough, who expressed strong support for the GTC, will welcome that. In addition, as we said in the White Paper in September, we consider that registration should be extended to overseas and trainee teachers with a view to the GTC being able to screen them for their suitability. That would prevent individuals from embarking on an initial teacher training course and to be found unsuitable to join the profession only at the end of their training. I confirm that it is the intention that all overseas trained teachers should be provisionally registered, whether or not they are taking courses that lead to QTS. That addresses the point made by the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West, Conservative)

If all overseas trained teachers should be provisionally registered, is there an appropriate maximum period of provisional registration or circumstances under which it might be expected to end, or is it possible and acceptable, under the Minister's proposals, that an overseas-trained teacher would be provisionally registered and simply remain so?

Mr. Timms: When the hon. Gentleman raised this point earlier, he referred to the change of the period for which overseas teachers are currently able to teach and it is indeed, I am relieved to say, the period of four years that is the maximum.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West, Conservative)

My understanding is that the four-year period is the maximum that can be spent as a temporary teacher. Presumably, following that period, it would be possible for a provisionally registered overseas-trained teacher either to become engaged on a more permanent contract or conceivably, and I seek clarification on this, to embark on a further period? Can the Minister enlighten us as to what regulations would prevent that from happening?

Mr Stephen Timms (Minister of State (School Standards), Department for Education and Skills; East Ham, Labour)

Not without QTS is the answer. But as the hon. Gentleman said we have extended the period, recognising the important contribution that a number of overseas teachers have made.

Picking up the some of the points made by the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough, the GTC does support these new categories of registration and, in particular, supports the new category of provisional registration, so this is not something that is being imposed and is unwelcome.

Amendments No. 503 to 513 would prevent the GTC from undertaking suitability assessments both for trainee teachers and overseas teachers. I do not think that that would be in the interest of promoting the highest professional standards. I accept that before we consider making regulations, there is a lot of work to be done. We will certainly need to consult the GTC on the timing of the regulations and on the council's readiness to bring this new group of teachers within the regulatory framework. In turn, the GTC will want to consult the teacher unions, employers and initial teacher-training providers before a provisional register is established. Further, the funding implications—the availability of resources—will also need to be thought through and, of course, spending plans for 2003-04 and beyond will be the subject of the spending review under way at the moment. Therefore, the process of implementing the new category of provisional registration will not be an immediate one.

The number of individuals eligible for provisional registration would be small in comparison to the 400,000 and more qualified teachers who are currently eligible to be registered with the GTC. We estimate that the first tranche of provisional registrations could amount to around 40,000 individuals.

I hope that hon. Members, on reflection, will recognise that this is a helpful move and that the amendment will be withdrawn.

Mr Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)

I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. I do not support all his comments. For instance, it is up to the teacher training agency and the relevant institutions to vet people so as to establish whether they are suitable. The idea that they might finish a course and then be found to be unsuitable is farcical, so I do not accept that. Also, until trainee teachers have qualified, their status is no different

from, for example, a classroom assistant who is working in a school but who cannot become an associate member.

I do not think that there is any difficulty in the GTC vetting overseas teachers without them becoming part and parcel of the associate registration process. I have, however, listened to what the Minister has said and I will reflect on it. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Schedule 13 agreed to

Ordered,

That the Order of the Committee [11 December 2001] relating to programming, as amended [13 and 18 December 2001 and 10 January 2002 and today] be amended as follows—

in paragraph (1), the words 'and on Monday 21st January at half past Four o'clock' are omitted;

in paragraph (2), '19' is omitted and '18' inserted;

the entries for the 14th to 19th sittings are omitted and the following is inserted:

Clauses 152 to 170 (so far as not previously concluded)

Mr John Heppell (Government Whip (technically a Lords Commissioner, HM Treasury); Nottingham East, Labour)

I thank you for your tolerance, Mr. Griffiths. I thank hon. Members for helping us to get through our business today.

Further consideration adjourned.—[Mr. Heppell.]

Adjourned accordingly at eleven minutes past Five o'clock till Tuesday 22 January at half-past Ten o'clock.