Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West, Conservative)

I beg to move amendment No. 8, in page 3, line 29, leave out subsection (2).

Mrs Irene Adams (Paisley North, Labour)

With this it will be convenient to take amendment No. 43, in page 3, line 30, leave out ''on one occasion only''.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West, Conservative)

I shall not detain the Committee. The amendment ties in with earlier amendments concerning flexibility in the innovation proposals. Earlier, the Minister unkindly suggested that the amendments were inconsistent. That is a demonstration of the huge prescience of Her Majesty's Opposition, who accurately predicted the Government's failure to support earlier amendments. They also predicted the Minister's argument that it was inappropriate to allow Ministers huge scope and flexibility because they could not be trusted to make decisions on innovation. Amendment No. 8 is an opportunity for the Minister to put those words into action. In his strong view, we need a better standard of parliamentary scrutiny of the provisions.

The amendment probes whether six years is the appropriate length of time for innovation to continue without parliamentary scrutiny, or whether three years would be more appropriate.

Mr Chris Grayling (Epsom & Ewell, Conservative)

The provisions are extraordinarily vague. Will the Minister give us a detailed explanation, and some examples, of how the Government would use the provisions? One of my concerns is that the Bill does not clearly demonstrate how the Government will use their powers.

I hope that the amendment will tease out one aspect of the lack of information. I hope that the Minister will put into context how he has reached the conclusions in the clause, and how it will be used.

Mr Phil Willis (Harrogate & Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)

The amendment has the same theme as amendment No. 43. We, too, find the clause difficult to understand. Why three years? Why one extension only? We look forward to the Minister's response.

Mr Stephen Timms (Minister of State (School Standards), Department for Education and Skills; East Ham, Labour)

As the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West said, we have previously discussed this matter. At the time, the amendment he proposed was contrary to the current one, but I will not labour that point.

It is appropriate for an innovation pilot to run for three years, and it may be extended after that time for up to another three years. That decision takes into account a case where the change is put into primary legislation, but for some reason the Bill cannot proceed. A three-year extension would allow the innovation to continue, pending the legislative position being resolved. Opposition Members have accused us of adopting untrammelled powers in the measures; now they are urging us to ''untrammel'' them more.

We have struck the right balance. The mechanisms are appropriate for piloting, but inappropriate for making permanent changes to the law. There are other procedures in the House for making permanent changes, which I listed earlier. I hope that hon. Members will accept that we have the right balance of three years followed by a three-year extension.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West, Conservative)

I do not accept that the Government have got it right, but as I said when I moved the amendment, we have aired our concerns about the obvious inconsistency in the Government's approach in relation to earlier amendments, and I will not seek to press the matter to a Division.

Mr Phil Willis (Harrogate & Knaresborough, Liberal Democrat)

Likewise, we are happy not to press our amendment. However, the Minister is unrealistic if he believes that we can, in a short time, disapply terms and conditions for staff, adopt the Government's policy—which they abandoned in their previous term—of appointing super heads with extraordinarily high salaries, and create new types of school, such as fresh start schools, which was also Government policy.

Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham & Sale West, Conservative)

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.