Clause 5 - Preliminary consultation
Regulatory Reform Bill [Lords]
5:45 pm
Mr Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire, Conservative)
I beg to move amendment No. 18, in page 5, line 3, at end insert
`and—
(f) in relation to the consultation described in sub-paragraphs (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e) above send to each person consulted a draft copy of the document the Minister intends to lay before Parliament as described in section 6 below.'.
The amendment would require the Minister to provide those persons whom he consults in the preliminary consultation—my hon. Friend the Member for South-West Hertfordshire would say those whom the Minister in his wisdom and at his discretion chooses to consult—with a draft copy of the document that he is required to lay before Parliament under clause 6. We shall go on to discuss what should be in such a document, so you will not expect me to dwell on that at any length, Mr. Cook. Suffice it to say that it will be a substantive document. Subject to what we go on to decide, it will set out many of the issues on which the consultees in the preliminary consultation want to know the Government's views, because we are dealing with a relatively complex set of orders compared with what occurred previously under deregulation and contracting out provisions.
We are dealing with a series of tests. As we have learned, we are talking not just about whether there is the necessary protection, but about whether there are reasonable expectations that need to be retained, whether a public interest will have to be balanced against the interests of persons affected and what the Government think that public interest might be. We will need to know whether the Government propose to impose burdens and whether it is desirable to proceed with an order that balances those additional burdens with the benefits that might flow from them.
On the basis of the Bill as drafted, we shall have estimates of the savings or increases in costs that will result from proposals. Obviously, those who are consulted will focus on that quantitatively. If we have our way, we might also end up with a process that is more akin to a genuine, comprehensive regulatory impact assessment.
All those questions would be of interest to preliminary consultees, but which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Will we have the document that is to be laid before Parliament, with all the details that must be presented in it, before the preliminary consultation, or will we have all the details only after the preliminary consultation? We should not expect Government to have answers to all the questions before the end of the preliminary consultation. Many facts and views—particularly concerning impacts, effects on persons and increases in savings and costs—will be derived from responses to the consultation.
The purpose of the amendment is not to pretend that the Government would know, before the preliminary consultation, all the facts necessary to complete the document referred to in clause 6. It is to suggest that it would be helpful to the preliminary consultation if the Government were to structure the consultation not simply around a presentation of the proposals but around the document that is subsequently to be laid before Parliament. That would help to focus the minds of consultees, especially in the early stages when regulatory reform orders are to be presented, on the considerations that must be decided by Ministers and on the issues that must be judged by the Deregulation Committees and the House. It is especially important in the early stages that the preliminary consultation should be structured around a draft copy of the document that will subsequently be laid before Parliament.
Ministers should not allow the consultation under clause 6 to carry too great a burden for the interests outside Parliament. In my experience, by the time Ministers lay a document before Parliament, they have become progressively more attached to it. Therefore, the earlier that we can expose the document to the outside world, the better. Consultation is free and open if Ministers have not committed themselves. The draft document might include various formulations or caveats and leave empty brackets, as it were, in which to fill in the precise detail. The consultation would be real in the sense that those bodies that are making representations would feel that they are feeding their material directly into the document that is to be presented to the Deregulation Committees and to Parliament. It is important that Ministers do not become too fixed on the document that is to be laid before Parliament, as if it were the final word. If Ministers and officials are relatively open to consultation at an early stage, it will be more effective.
If we were to adopt the amendment, we would forestall the risk that Ministers, in presenting their proposals, might tend to present the benefits of the regulatory reform rather than focusing on the costs. I hope that one specific purpose of the document to be laid before Parliament under clause 6 is to force Ministers to disclose their cost estimates. Therefore, by extension, those who are consulted under clause 5 would be clear about the costs that Ministers anticipate will be associated with the proposals. I hope that the Minister will not only continue to be constructive in his response, but be positive about the amendment.