Regulatory Reform Bill [Lords]
10:30 am
Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire, Conservative)
As a son of Dunblane, I too made a speech during the handgun debate. I was on your side, Mr. Cook, on that occasion and against the notion of banning handguns. I am sorry that my career since then has not been as glittering as the Minister's because had it been I would be sitting in his place rather than in this lowly position.
As the Opposition Whip, I would like to make some short points about the programming procedure. I have sat on a number of pre-legislative scrutiny Committees and it has been made clear that the fact that a Bill goes through such Committees should not in any way shorten proper consideration of the legislation. I am glad that the Minister has not overdone that argument. I merely flag it up as something that we should not allow to occur. Pre-legislative scrutiny should not lead ultimately to a reduction in the amount of proper scrutiny that takes place in Committee.
Conservative Members are opposed to the entire notion of programme resolutions. From that point of view, I welcome the proceedings in yesterday's Programming Sub-Committee in that nothing happened that would not have happened prior to the introduction of the procedure. It was agreed informally that the Bill would be out of Committee by this Thursday, and that we would sit twice on Tuesday and twice on Thursday. Both those matters have always been resolved through the usual channels. The Programming Sub-Committee did not involve any detailed programming of which clauses have to be completed by a certain time. Everything that happened would normally have been arranged through the usual channels.
The Committee took place in secret: no record was taken. Although that would be the case with the usual channels, it is wrong in a properly constituted Committee of the House. The Minister should not need to have to reiterate what he said yesterday about not intending to table large numbers of Government amendments. He needs to do so during this short debate only because no record was taken. Equally, if a record had been taken, it would be unnecessary for me to make several of the points that I am making.
What happened on this occasion has reconfirmed our general view of programme resolutions. The matter could have been sensibly handled through the usual channels without that unnecessary meeting yesterday, where it was even agreed that the usual channels should discuss the Bill's passage through the Committee in the normal way—in the Corridor outside the Committee Room. We welcome that.
I am happy to join my hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) in saying that I hope that four sittings of the Committee will be sufficient to enable us to discuss the Bill in detail. The fact that it is relatively uncontroversial and that there is a relatively large degree of cross-party consensus should help us in that process. However, the fact that there is cross-party consensus makes it terribly important that the Committee should consider and discuss the Bill in detail. That is why we have been so unhappy about the conduct of several other Committees that have taken place recently—especially the Committee that considered the Criminal Justice and Police Bill, on which the Government Whip and I served.
The Programming Sub-Committee is a bit of a waste of time. It needs to do nothing in particular, leaving the usual channels to do their historic and worthwhile work.