Schedule 8 - Genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes: articles 6 to 9
International Criminal Court Bill [Lords]
3:00 pm
Mr Gerald Howarth (Aldershot, Conservative)
I am grateful to the honourable lawyer for giving me some guidance. I accept the principle of complementarity. Nevertheless, if we are to incorporate the offences into our domestic law, it would be sensible to guard against future ambiguity by making it clear that we want the courts to err on the side of understanding our troops' concerns.
Amendment No. 34 would delete article 8.2(b)(v), set out in schedule 8, which covers:
``Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives''.
If, for example, an undefended village were harbouring terrorists, where would a commander who attacked the village stand in relation to that provision of our domestic law? No one would suggest that the terrorists were defending such villages or buildings; rather, we would say that they were using them as a shield. Would our commanders face action as a result of attacking? In the attack on the command centre in Baghdad during the Gulf war, many civilian casualties occurred, but it was thought to be an important communications centre and therefore deemed a military target. If the offence were incorporated into our domestic law, would we be satisfied that the courts would take the view that that was a legitimate target, or, indeed, that the collateral damage caused was not ``clearly excessive'', in the words of sub-sub-paragraph (iv)?
My final example is that of Dresden during the second world war. I spent some of my formative years in Hamburg in Germany. When I first went to Dresden in 1956, I saw the devastation that had been caused to the city. Area bombing—one description that is given to the wholesale bombing of cities—was the subject of an argument that raged after the second world war and continues today. A very interesting article on Sir Arthur Harris—commander of Bomber Command during the second world war and known to some as ``Bomber'' Harris—entitled ``Exploding the Myths'' was published in the February-March edition of Legion, the Royal British Legion magazine. Hamburg neighbours to whom my parents spoke were in no doubt that the German people realised the damage that was being inflicted on our cities and the damage that Hitler's Government were doing to their own people only after German city centres were bombed and substantial civilian fatalities were incurred.
The point made by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Mr. Browne) was a fair one—even if he was a little slow in getting up—but will area bombing be outlawed for ever if we incorporate the provision into our domestic law? The United States air force 1,000 bomber raid on Berlin on 3 February 1945 resulted in the deaths of 25,000 Berliners. Today, that might well be considered excessive ``incidental damage''. I am sorry to use such phrases and I do not mean to dismiss the loss of 25,000 lives, but to hamper our people so that they cannot prosecute a battle in that way would be a very serious matter. To do so could make it difficult to defend ourselves or our interests on a wider front.
It is part of the argument about the role of Bomber Command—I know that you take great interest in these matters, Mr. Cook—Albert Speer, who was in charge of German industrial production from 1942, gainsaid critics who said that Bomber Command was ineffective. According to the article to which I have referred, he said that
``the strategic bomber was the cause of all our setbacks''
and that the failure to stop the bombers was
``the greatest lost battle on the German side''.
Are we enacting domestic legislation that would inhibit any future British Government carrying out such action? It might be the collective view of the Government of the day, supported by the will of the people, that such action was the lesser evil and the only available option.
A future British Government might decide that bombing of the type that took place in Nagasaki and Hiroshima was necessary to destroy a great evil. Would the legislation inhibit such bombing? Huge damage was done to those cities, but which of the two evils is greater? Group Captain Sir Leonard Cheshire, who was on board the United States bomber that dropped that awful bomb on Hiroshima, went on to do fantastic charitable works and was a great and respected figure in the world of charity in this country. The bombing of Hiroshima was clearly a source of great anguish to him. None the less, it was felt that it was the only way to bring that war to an end and prevent a greater evil.