Clause 2 - Request for arrest and surrender
International Criminal Court Bill [Lords]
11:15 am
Mr Gerald Howarth (Aldershot, Conservative)
I strongly support the observations of my hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham about the implications of the Bill for processes of reconciliation in countries where conflict—sometimes, serious conflict—has taken place. My hon. Friend referred in particular to the process of truth and reconciliation, as it was called, in South Africa, and she also mentioned Northern Ireland. The important point for us to understand—perhaps the Minister will deal with this when he replies—is that it will be difficult for the court to take into account in its deliberations such processes of reconciliation, which take place in countries where crimes have been committed that are generally recognised to fall within the categories set out in the statute of Rome. The difficulty is that we are not dealing with conventions; we will be dealing with United Kingdom statute law because the Bill's purpose is to incorporate huge chunks of conventions into our law.
I am not a lawyer, let alone an international lawyer, so I do not know the extent to which international conventions are binding on, and capable of interpretation by, our courts, but I know that once this legislation is enacted in UK law—and I recognise that there is also both English law and Scottish law—it will be subject to the strict interpretation of our courts. However, because the Bill makes no reference to a process of reconciliation, I put it to the Minister that no court will be able to take that process into account—not even the ICC. Although the ICC has some latitude to decide how to proceed in a particular case, and thereby to require us to arrest and surrender someone who has been convicted or charged by the ICC, we should be clear that its latitude will have no reference to the question of reconciliation. The Minister might be able to tell us that the ICC will be able to decide not to proceed in certain circumstances because, however horrific the crime, a process of reconciliation is taking place, which requires the ICC not to take any action.
I shall now refer to Chile. I hope that I will not be accused of being insensitive and of trying to wind up the hon. Member for Ilford, South (Mr. Gapes), whom, I know, is sensitive on the subject. However, I, too, feel sensitive about Chile because I visited the country in 1977. I saw the poverty in that country, and have seen it develop since then into a hugely prosperous and democratic country.
I do not want to revisit all the hon. Gentleman's arguments, except to say that I disagree fundamentally. I wish that people on the political left would understand that Salvador Allende, whom they regard as their patron saint, was no saint whatsoever. Had it not been for the intervention of the armed forces under General Pinochet in 1975, having failed to persuade the courts to do what he wanted, Allende would have overridden them and used his Cuban mercenaries to seize control.
It being twenty-five minutes past Eleven o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
Adjourned till this day at half-past Two o'clock.