Clause 48 - Exclusion of nursing care from community care services
Health and Social Care Bill
5:00 pm
Mr Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) for tabling the amendment. He and the Minister had the pleasure of slugging out the debate on personal care last night in the House. Unfortunately, I was not present, so I apologise to both of them if it turns out that some of the issues that I want to raise were discussed last night. I know that some of them were, but I am sure that neither hon. Gentleman will be dismayed by having to discuss them again.
The amendments give us the opportunity to discuss the devolution-related issues, to which the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam has already drawn our attention. There are continuing controversies surrounding the matter. Essentially, in this part of the Bill, there will be three separate debates. The first would be about balancing the desire to address the concerns of older people and their families about the iniquities of—and the perverse incentives in—the current system of means-tested support for long-term care with the fiscal concerns. The second issue relates to devolution and the third concerns the Government's definition of nursing care and how the provision will work in practice.
On the second matter, the devolution-related issue, the hon. Gentleman has set the amendment in in the context of Wales, but he referred to the situation in Scotland. Theoretically, the amendments would place Wales in the same position as Scotland. I am sure that the Liberal Democrats would like that to happen, as they are currently exploiting to the full the Government's discomfort over the Scottish fiasco—and who can blame them? Labour's problem in Scotland really concerns its approach to devolution. The controversy over personal care throws the issues into stark relief. We have said for some time—and I have said it more times than I care to remember in Standing Committees—that Labour's perception of what devolution means and how it works was always based on the assumption that the same party would be in control of both sides of the equation. The Liberal Democrats have exploited the leverage that they currently have in relation to the Scottish Parliament in order to embarrass the Government and place them in something of a dilemma.