Clause 1 - Offences leading to penalities on the spot.
Criminal Justice and Police Bill
12:00 pm
Mr Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire, Conservative)
But the amendments raise important issues. If the Association of Chief Police Officers says that criminal damage is not suited to the procedures, the Association of Chief Officers of Probation says that threatening behaviour is not suited to them and Bedfordshire police also has reservations, we should concentrate on their concerns.
Does the Minister think that the penalties will work for those two offences? He will be aware that the New South Wales ombudsman, Brendan Delahunty, responded to the Government consultation. He sent the Minister a paper called ``Policing Public Safety''. In chapter 12, pages 308 to 310, that paper described the experience of issuing fixed penalty notices for public order offences under the Australian Police and Public Safety Act. Offences mentioned are public order offences such as carrying a knife and refusing to do what a police officer says when direction is appropriate. The paper showed that although fixed penalty notices generally achieve a good level of payment, it drops dramatically where public order offences are concerned. In New South Wales, 95 per cent. of penalties were not paid for the offence of custody of a knife and 92 per cent. were not paid for refusing police direction. Payment was therefore received from between only 5 and 8 per cent. of those served with fixed penalty notices. The paper concluded that the bulk of offenders served with fixed penalty notices were young—under 24—that the fines were far too high, and that offenders had limited capacity to pay and did not understand the legal consequences of non-payment.
The Association of Chief Officers of Probation took up that point and said:
``A judgement needs to be made about whether the current compliance rate of 77 per cent. for fixed penalties is satisfactory or whether it is too low. Extending fixed penalties to non-motorists, especially those with alcohol problems, probably means fixed penalty compliance will dip sharply. From probation experience we know that successful compliance and enforcement is critical to public confidence.''
Why does the Minister think that it would be different for penalising threatening behaviour or criminal damage in this country? Would we not end up with a lack of respect for the law if those comparatively serious matters were treated in such a manner? Threatening behaviour is an offence often committed by young men on a Saturday night, at a football match or in the heated environment of a dispute with a neighbour. It might be serious or not so serious. It is the type of offence that fits into the category identified in New South Wales of offences committed by young people who do not understand the legal consequences of not paying and who are unlikely to pay.
Will penalties become a farce because of high levels of non-payment? I may deal with the cost of that when we come to clause stand part. Are not penalties on the spot particularly unsuitable for those two offences?
I want to ask the Minister about criminal damage. The victims of criminal damage have lost money. They may have had a fence kicked in or a tyre punctured or some other act of vandalism committed against them. If the amount involved is small, say a couple of hundred pounds, they might not try to recover it in a civil court. Currently, a victim is entitled to make a compensation claim if the criminal is charged, and a compensation order can be made on conviction. Will victims be deprived of the opportunity to receive compensation by the use of fixed penalty notices? If so, is that not monstrous?
The questions regarding criminal damage are whether the offence is too serious and whether it is right to deny compensation to a victim who has suffered a no doubt worrying incident and the loss of a small amount of money. Many victims might agree with ACPO, which has said that the offence should not be included.