Mr Dickson asked the Minister for Regional Development to report what steps he proposes to take to reduce the possibility of further flooding.
Regional Development
3:30 pm
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
At the outset, let me say that my sympathies go out to those who have suffered from flooding and its consequences. As you may know, I took the opportunity to visit affected houses, properties and businesses in South Belfast, East Belfast, West Belfast and Lagan Valley, to see, at first hand, the effects of flooding on people and their properties. I understand the frustration and distress that people feel. I am also aware of the flooding episodes that took place in other areas of Northern Ireland, including in Cushendall and in Armagh in my constituency.
The priority of Northern Ireland Water and Roads Service has rightly been to prepare for any recurring events, to assist in restoring things to normal and to help those who have been affected. Unfortunately, the spell of unusual weather is not yet over. The Met Office has just issued a “be aware” yellow notice that affects the east of Northern Ireland, and further heavy downpours are predicted.
The immediate cause of events such as the flooding on 27 and 28 June can be easy to identify — in this case, exceptional rainfall — but complex to draw the right conclusions from. We await the conclusions of all the operational agencies involved, following the standing down of emergency response plans. My Department’s Roads Service and NI Water have begun the debrief process. However, many other agencies are involved: Floodline is the responsibility of the Department of Finance and Personnel; the drainage authority in Northern Ireland is the Agriculture Minister’s responsibility; and local authorities are the responsibility of the Environment Minister. There are also other issues, such as the effect on power to this estate and, indeed, to Parliament Buildings. Clearly, there is a need for effective co-ordination between all these agencies.
The Executive will discuss the events of 27 and 28 June at their meeting on Thursday. It is right that decisions be taken in light of the full picture. Any assessment of the bigger picture will need to take into account information; co-ordination between agencies, which I mentioned; response capability; legal responsibilities; and, indeed, investment. It is also important to acknowledge the limits of what can be done. We cannot eliminate the risk of surface water flooding. Nonetheless, I think that there is a good case for asking the Executive to look at how increased investment in our infrastructure may help to improve drainage in our worst-affected areas. Where appropriate, we are looking at how interim measures could help to alleviate problems. We all — householders, the Rivers Agency, Roads Service, NI Water, councils and emergency services — have to remain vigilant to ensure that we can respond to any new events to the best of our ability. If we are to take positive steps to improve matters for the benefit of all our citizens, it is important that we take time, as an Executive, to consider our longer-term response to surface water flooding.
William Hay (DUP)
Before I call Mr Stewart Dickson, I advise Members that we do not want further statements in the Chamber. I encourage Members to come to their supplementary questions quickly.
Stewart Dickson (Alliance)
I am disappointed that it has taken a question for urgent oral answer to bring the Minister to the House. Minister, would you agree that the actions taken as a result of the widespread flooding were totally inadequate, causing a great deal of damage and heartache? Will you explain the lack of co-ordination between your Department and others? Will you explain how you intend to put the necessary investment into modernising and maintaining our water and drainage systems to make them fit for the 21st century, and how you are going to do that —
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question and, indeed, his original question, but there are issues around, and lessons to be learned from, the events of last week. Those issues are not peculiar or specific to my Department for Regional Development. Interagency issues need to be addressed, particularly concerning responses and the initial response. Floodline is the responsibility of another Department, and it is important that there is a co-ordinated response on behalf of the Executive so that we can put an effective response regime in place for the future. That is what I am about, and I hope very much that I will have the co-operation — I know that I will — of other Ministers and Members, including members of the Regional Development Committee.
William Hay (DUP)
Before I call Seán Lynch, the Deputy Chair of the Committee for Regional Development, I advise Members who are rising in their place for supplementary questions that we have a speaking list. Members need to come to the Table to get their names on the list. This is totally different from Question Time.
Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin)
Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. As Deputy Chairperson of the Regional Development Committee, I record my thanks to all those who worked hard over the past week in the bad weather. Does the Minister accept that it was processes and not people that failed yet again? How does he intend to co-ordinate with his Executive colleagues to ensure that that is not the case in the future? Will he seek additional funding for the appropriate infrastructure as soon as possible?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the newly selected Deputy Chairperson of the Regional Development Committee for his comments. In particular, I join him in paying tribute to staff and workers from all the agencies that were involved. A great many officials from the various Departments and agencies gave of their best to assist in very difficult circumstances through Wednesday and Thursday and since. So, I join him in thanking all the people who were involved.
I think that it is crucial that there is a co-ordinated and appropriate response from the Executive to this issue. I talked about the various agencies that are involved and the various government Departments that have an input. However, the most critical issue is that the Executive have confidence in emergency response systems. That may require additional financial support for our overall infrastructure. As Minister for Regional Development, I can think of a number of schemes that I would like to bring forward if the required finance were made available.
I very much welcome the comments that the First Minister made in the immediate aftermath when he said that there was a case for greater resources to be invested in the infrastructure so that our systems can be improved. That process has to be co-ordinated. There is no quick fix, and there are no easy solutions, but it is important that the Executive address the issue with the utmost urgency.
Sammy Douglas (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his responses so far and for coming to East Belfast last Friday. One of the areas that he went to was the Bloomfield commercial park, where there are, I think, 14 businesses. That area could flood again tomorrow if there were enough rainfall. He mentioned exceptional circumstances, but does he agree that we need exceptional action to deal with this matter? Residents of Orangefield and other places that could flood again are asking me to say today that we need exceptional action from all the Departments.
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I thank the Member for his comments. I took the opportunity to visit areas of East Belfast, as well as the other areas that I mentioned. I saw at first hand the impact that there has been both on householders and local businesses who are clearly struggling, especially in the current economic climate. The emergency payments, which I welcome, have been triggered by my ministerial colleague Minister Attwood, but, in some cases, £1,000 will not go very far to address many of the issues that the flooding has caused. So, it is very important that the Executive look at the issue not only in the round and in a measured way but in a way that can give comfort to people that responses will be immediate and that infrastructure projects that will help to either alleviate or eradicate flooding issues can be brought forward as quickly as possible.
Michael McGimpsey (UUP)
I thank the Minister for his statement and for his help during the flooding, particularly in South Belfast. I also put on record my thanks to Belfast City Council, the Housing Executive, Roads Service and the water service for their actions when they got into operation. The distress for householders caused by raw sewage flooding their houses is a huge emergency and is something that this Executive must take seriously.
Michael McGimpsey (UUP)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will the Minister accept that the system is not fit for purpose, that you have a combined system that should be several separate systems and that there is a problem due to the thousands of extra homes that were built in South Belfast? Does he agree that the only way that the problem can be fixed is through proper investment — the estimate for that is around £30 million — and that the Executive must find that investment?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his comments, and I thank him for the responsible way in which he and others are helping people most affected in his constituency. I know that NI Water has earmarked schemes that it wants to carry forward in South Belfast. We are also looking at bringing forward some measures that will at least alleviate the potential risk of flooding in the area. We will continue to bring those measures forward.
I will not be slow or shy in putting forward the case at the Executive table for improved infrastructure and the need for additional finance for that requirement, given the experiences that people have had and that I witnessed last Thursday when homes, families and small local businesses were so severely affected.
All our hearts go out to the people whose homes were flooded. I was particularly concerned with the Finaghy area of South Belfast, and Greystown, Sicily Park, Marguerite Park and Orchardville. What I experienced in those streets was horrific, and I beg the Minister to do all that he can with the infrastructure to ensure that what happened does not happen again.
That is all down the road, but one thing that distressed me was the total failure of the agencies to integrate and work together. Can he give us some undertaking that we will create a joined-up government effort across all the Departments — I am thinking of Northern Ireland Water, Roads Service, the Rivers Agency and even the police and the fire brigade —
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his question and his comments. I had the opportunity to discuss with him further some of the issues that affect his constituency, and I refer him to the answer that I gave to his constituency colleague Michael McGimpsey.
I am confident that, at their discussion on Thursday, the Executive will want to bring forward a co-ordinated response, not just on overall infrastructure but on the issue of who does what and who responds quickly and immediately so that there is no buck-passing or hand-wringing and we get on with the job of dealing with the emergency at hand.
Paul Givan (DUP)
I thank the Minister for the time that he spent in my constituency. He is aware that a large number of properties were affected in Lagan Valley. Will he undertake to investigate some of the circumstances in the Pond Park area, where a considerable amount of new housing has been built, and where there is a clear feeling that the necessary improvements to the infrastructure have not followed the particular increase in the volume of housing?
Will he also investigate why DRD diverted sandbags that were en route to Lisburn to Belfast, when we needed them in Lisburn as well?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his comments. The number of houses and properties that have been given planning permission against an insufficient catch-up in the overall infrastructure was a contributing factor in last week’s events and will remain so in the immediate short term. Clearly, there are spatial planning and overall infrastructure issues that various Ministers and the Executive should be addressing. I will raise the specific issues in Lagan Valley that the Member mentioned and reply to him.
Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin)
Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. First, I acknowledge that the Minister visited a number of homes, from Bloomfield to Pond Park; on the Lisburn Road; and in Orchardville, Twinbrook and other areas. He saw for himself the damage that was caused to many people’s homes, and to small businesses in particular.
I would like the Minister to address two points. Obviously, he does not have responsibility for the range of agencies, but there are agencies that are within his remit. Has he met the heads of NI Water and Roads Service over the weekend or since then to address what many of us identify as their abysmal failure to respond to the crisis? There was due notice; everybody knew that the weather was going to get really bad. Has he met the heads of those agencies to examine their response? Most of us see that as none.
Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin)
Secondly, will the Minister confirm whether he has sought an urgent report from the various agencies on what causes the problems in a lot of the locations? Clearly, there has been a lot of comment about —
Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin)
I will finish on this point, Mr Speaker. There has been talk about large infrastructure projects. Not all of the problems —
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his comments and questions. I have been in constant and ongoing contact through my departmental responsibilities with senior officials since the events of Wednesday and Thursday. I am also having the specific cases compiled, on an area-by-area basis, to see what, if any, early measures can be taken to alleviate some of the problems.
It is important that there is proper co-ordination among all the agencies. It is certainly my intention to pursue that at Executive level with Executive colleagues so that we can improve the co-ordinated response as part of any future emergency. I have indicated to the House that there is another weather alert. I think that we all accept that we are perplexed at times by the weather patterns. Nonetheless, if you are impacted upon in the way that I saw at first hand last Thursday, you will expect the Executive to act quickly to ensure that all possible measures are taken to alleviate and, hopefully, eradicate the risk of further flooding.
Gordon Dunne (DUP)
I advise the Minister of some flooding in the Holywood area of north Down. Will he clarify the policy of Roads Service on the supply of sandbags? It is important that we get clarification. They should be available so that people can protect their properties at the early warning stage rather than during the course of the flood.
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I am aware of the issue. There needs to be greater clarity about who provides sandbags as a measure of assistance to householders and at what point. There is an argument that if a particular area is known as a hotspot, where there is the risk of flooding, perhaps sandbags could be stored at a location close by so that people can readily access them. I am prepared to look at that in conjunction with other Departments and Executive colleagues.
Roy Beggs (UUP)
I thank the Minister for his responses so far. Will he ensure that all the agencies feed back to the root cause of the flooding so that, if there are failings, for instance, in Rivers Agency or in our rivers and streams, they are addressed at that point and that any subsequent planning applications upstream in areas of flooding are seriously delayed or prevented until the necessary improvements have taken place?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. He made a very valid point. Greater co-ordination among Departments in the assessment of planning applications and the input of the various agencies will become increasingly important. It is certainly a matter that I want to raise with Executive colleagues.
Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin)
I thank the Minister for taking my question. I will go on record to thank his Department for its work in Ballymoney. I also thank the emergency services, the Rivers Agency and even the local lifeboat station. At one time, we had nine fire tenders in Cushendall’s main street pumping out water. The word from Cushendall, the rest of the glens, Cushendun and Glenariff is this: “Here we go again.” I make a heartfelt plea for you to please do something about this. I was a bit disappointed that we did not hear any word from your office after I phoned it on Thursday to invite you down to the glens to show you the situation first hand. That invitation stands today: I ask you to come into the glens to look at the problems there.
Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin)
You mentioned the exceptional weather. We are getting this weather year on year, Minister. It is no longer exceptional. Go raibh maith agat.
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for the points that he raised. I know that he was active in the emergency that applied to Cushendall and other areas in his constituency. If it is appropriate, I am happy to go to see the conditions that he described. I also join him in paying tribute to all the staff from the various agencies who were involved out on the ground, particularly staff from the Department and the agencies that are relevant to me. We need to continue to work on some issues to identify, as Roy Beggs MLA said, the exact source of the problem, to seek to eradicate it and to deal with it at that source rather than continuing to run the risk of a “here we go again” situation.
Does the Minister agree that the people whom he met with colleagues and me in Sicily Park, Marguerite Park and Orchardville Crescent last Thursday morning are the victims of a systemic failure in drainage, sewerage and the policy towards informal culverts on undesignated waterways and covered rivers, and that their situation will be improved only —
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I know that he was also out on the ground on Thursday. I joined him and his constituency colleagues to look at some of the areas that he mentioned. Let me say absolutely that I would not be in any way pleased or content if it happened to my property. I would not want those conditions visited on anybody. I have absolute sympathy for those who have been affected by the flooding episode that they have endured.
Therefore, as a Minister with some, but not entire, responsibility given the agencies that I am in charge of, I am determined to improve things. That makes it important for me to argue at Executive level and on the Floor of the Assembly for additional resources to improve the overall infrastructure to reduce the impact and danger of flooding. That is what I am about, and I expect Executive colleagues to agree with me when we have a discussion on Thursday.
Alex Easton (DUP)
As the Minister knows, Ardmore and Tudor Oaks in my constituency of North Down have been affected. Will the Minister tell us what capacity there is for the water service to spend its capital money, considering that it seems to have handed money back over the past three years? Indeed, will the Minister tell us how much capital money the water service has handed back over the past three years?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his question. NI Water wants infrastructure work and other projects to be carried out. Some of the moneys that were given back to DFP to reallocate involved efficiency savings programmes. Through good, efficient use of resources, and by not spending money on capital projects on different budgets, it has been able to save money for the benefit of other Ministers.
NI Water is very keen to advance a range of schemes that will help the overall infrastructure, and I, as Minister for Regional Development, will support it in making those cases.
Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin)
Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for the information thus far, and I, with party colleagues, will meet him tomorrow to get into the specifics. I thank the Minister for taking calls from elected reps during that time; that needs to be recognised. One of the failures that I saw in the Colin area was the lack of a co-ordinated response or approach to dealing with the issue there and then, and other colleagues have raised that. Even though it is not his responsibility, is the Minister taking on board the delay in Lisburn council kicking in, outside of what Belfast has done? People are saying that there seems to be a lack of a proactive approach to cleaning drains in the areas that have flooded. Is the Minister ensuring that his Department is out now, when we have this break in the weather, proactively cleaning drains in areas that are inclined to flood?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I thank the Member for her comments and question. She raises a very relevant point. It is important that as much structural maintenance as possible continues to be carried out, particularly in areas that have been affected, and I will reinforce my view within the Department that we should carry that out as quickly as possible. The Member will know that the maintenance budget for my Department has received a very severe cut, and, whilst we were glad of some relief last week from the Finance Minister in the area of structural maintenance for roads, there is, nevertheless, quite a gap compared with the record levels that we were able to spend last year. Within the resources that have been given to us, we are seeking to provide as much service as possible, and it is important that areas that have been recently affected are given some service and checking to ensure that gullies and drains are cleared as quickly as possible.
Chris Lyttle (Alliance)
The list of affected streets in east Belfast that have been systemically failed by the Government would be pages long, so I will not go through them today. I thank public servants and community volunteers, without whom many residents would have been left stranded during the flooding period. I thank the Minister for accepting my invitation, on behalf of my colleagues Naomi Long MP and Judith Cochrane MLA, to attend Bloomfield commercial centre. Given the damage that he saw at first hand to that business park, will he raise at the Executive table the possibility of emergency financial assistance for businesses as well as residents?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his comments and the supplementary question. Indeed, I accompanied him and colleagues to Bloomfield park to see the impact at first hand. I will not make promises that I cannot keep. The overall response to the flooding crisis will have to be an Executive response. If there is to be a financial response to that, it will clearly involve the Finance Minister and the Executive as a whole. I have witnessed at first hand the impact on houses, homes, families and businesses, and I will report that to Executive colleagues on Thursday.
Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice)
It is obvious that the infrastructure has failed in many areas. It is equally obvious, from what the Minister says, that there is a deficiency in capital spend on infrastructure. Why is it, then, that when he was allocating his budget, he chose to put the lion’s share of capital spend into a project such as the A5 and not enough into water and sewerage infrastructure?
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. He will know, because I have oft repeated it, as have others in the House, that the A5 scheme is a priority for not just Regional Development but the entire Executive. That is the case, and it remains the case. I have indicated that I want to see increased resources made available to my Department and the other Departments affected, as we seek to address the issues of flooding and infrastructure failings that are so evident after the events of last week. I will continue to make the case, and I hope that, if there is the opportunity to do so on the Floor of the Assembly, the Member will give his support to that as well.
Steven Agnew (Green)
I thank the Minister for coming to the House today and addressing these questions. Each time that a Minister stands up and talks about exceptional weather and exceptional rainfall, it has less credibility as these events occur with increasing regularity. The extreme weather conditions that we are facing have, of course, been predicted for many years through climate change predictions. Will the Minister work with his ministerial colleagues to bring forward a climate change adaptation strategy, including such things as sustainable urban drainage systems, to ensure that we are not just —
Danny Kennedy (UUP)
I am grateful to the Member for his contribution. He has advanced those arguments before. Yes, I will, of course, take on board his comments. Exceptional weather patterns have developed over recent years. People will say that it becomes not an exceptional flood but an annual flood. That is why we have to be sure that we take all possible measures to mitigate the likelihood of these floods recurring and why a co-ordinated response involving the entire Executive is so crucial.