Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 4 and 6 together.

Preparations for the devolution of policing and justice powers have progressed in line with the process paper, which the First Minister and I made public following our attendance at the Assembly and Executive Review Committee meeting of 18 November 2008. One of the essential steps identified in that paper was the need for a satisfactory conclusion to financial discussions involving the First Minister and me, the NIO, the Treasury and the Prime Minister.

Over the course of the past 10 months, the First Minister and I have met with senior Whitehall Ministers on a number of occasions to discuss financing issues in relation to the devolution of policing and justice powers. Those talks intensified recently when the First Minister and I met the Prime Minister on 16 September 2009 and 21 September 2009 in London and on 23 September 2009 in New York. Members will be aware that each of the parties met with Gordon Brown earlier today, and I believe that others will be meeting him later. The First Minister and I will meet him together in Stormont Castle immediately after Question Time.

In addition, officials from OFMDFM and the Department of Finance and Personnel have engaged in detailed and lengthy discussions with Whitehall Departments, including the Treasury, the NIO and the Court Service, to establish the financial implications of devolution.

A series of meetings has also been held with front line policing and justice agencies to examine the pressures that they will face in delivering services in the coming years.

Substantial progress has been made in identifying the pressures that a Department of justice would face in this comprehensive spending review and beyond. However, those issues have not yet been fully resolved, and further ministerial discussions are planned. Consequently, it would be premature and inappropriate to comment on the funding details at this time.

The First Minister and I remain firmly of the view that devolution should be accompanied by adequate resources to meet the challenge of those new responsibilities and to deal with financial pressures. We also believe that a locally accountable Minister would be better placed to set priorities and manage the policing and justice budget than a Minister based in London.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin)

Members will be aware that we are at a very sensitive stage regarding the way forward. The First Minister and I will go back to talk to Gordon Brown, and he indicated at our meeting this morning that he might need to see us during the coming days. We are talking about huge sums of money: hundreds of millions of pounds.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin)

I will tell you what they are: they are for hearing loss, legal aid, equal pay and a range of other issues. We want to ensure that we have a policing service that is supported by a Department of justice that has the essential funding required to make it fit for purpose. The issue that we have been discussing recently has brought us to a point where Gordon Brown has made it clear, at the meeting that I have just left, that he wants to ensure that the issue of finance does not block the process from moving forward. He is saying that he will not fail, and we are going to keep him to his commitments.

We are concerned about some issues. It is vital that the centre of excellence for the emergency services — the Fire and Rescue Service and the Police Service — is commenced as quickly as possible, and not just because it is in my constituency. That, in itself, sends a powerful message to people about how we will move forward. We have raised that issue and a whole range of others during our discussions.

I am taking the British Prime Minister at his word. He is saying that this process — this negotiation — will not fail on account of the funding issues. After meeting with him today, I believe what he says: the process will not fall down because the British Government do not recognise the importance of funding the requirements that we have identified to enable us to move forward.

Obviously, we are in the mouth of the next British Constituency choses an MP to represent it by..." class="glossary">general election, and I do not know what Government will be returned: it will be either a Labour Government or a Conservative Government. I noted with interest this morning that David Cameron made it clear that he is prepared to honour whatever agreement Gordon Brown makes. However, I remind Members that when Peter Robinson and I, along with Ian Paisley, Gerry Adams, Mark Durkan and Reg Empey, went to Downing Street prior to the establishment of these institutions, the British Government walked out to the microphones and told the world’s media that the Budget for the next 10 years in the North would amount to almost £60 billion and that that was ring-fenced and guaranteed. Have we learnt a bitter lesson since then?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin)

We all have. We all recognise that, no matter what agreements we make as a result of our negotiations with this British Prime Minister, we are dealing with a British Government that could, at any time, cut any aspect of our Budget through the Barnett formula. That is an occupational hazard that we have to live with. Our job as politicians is to fight that battle. Obviously, the negotiation that we are involved in is not one that will just tide us over for the next number of months; it will take us right through the next comprehensive spending review.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin)

First of all, I am not “the deputy”. I am the deputy First Minister in a Department where there is equality between the First Minister and myself, and don’t you ever forget it. [Interruption.] Secondly, as we move forward, we do so on the basis that everybody in the House wants the process to work. I was very interested to hear Lord Trimble during the last couple of hours, telling the Ulster Unionist Party to get on with it, as he sauntered down — I do not think it was on a yacht, but it was on a punt of some description — towards the Conservative Party conference. The Ulster Unionist Party would be well advised to heed his advice.

(Mr speaker is in charge of proceedings of the House of Commons in..." class="glossary">Deputy Speaker [Mr Molloy] in the Chair)