Afghanistan — Question
House of Lords debates, 19 October 2009, 3:01 pm
Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Conservative)
To ask Her Majesty's Government what contribution the British military presence in Afghanistan is making towards preventing terrorism in the United Kingdom.
Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Defence; Labour)
My Lords, our forces are working under United Nations Security Council resolutions with 42 other countries to build security and governance to prevent Afghanistan from again becoming a safe haven for terrorism.
As the Prime Minister explained in his speech on
Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Conservative)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Have the Government considered carefully the published opinions of Rory Stewart, the former British soldier who is an Afghan expert and who is now at Harvard? He has written not just that democratic government is impossible in Afghanistan but that any effective government is impossible there, and that al-Qaeda no longer needs large-scale bases in Afghanistan when it can train in Eritrea, Somalia, Yemen, at outward-bound courses in Derbyshire or indeed flying schools in Florida. Have they considered his opinion that what is needed is not more troops but fewer troops with a more carefully defined and limited objective?
Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Defence; Labour)
My Lords, the objective of our troops is extremely well defined. The Statement made by the Prime Minister last week set out that strategy. It is important that we counter the insurgents there, but it is also important that we build good governance in Afghanistan and help the Afghans to take control of their own affairs. It is true that there are threats and dangers from those who are training terrorists in other parts of the world, but I draw attention to what the security services have said: that three-quarters of all the plots that affect us in this country have their origins in that region. Therefore, it is right that we should make that a priority.
Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (Liberal Democrat)
My Lords, do the Government not realise that troops cannot turn this round and should not be expected to, as our present difficulties with President Karzai's election clearly shows? Is not rule number one in an international intervention such as this is that the international community has a single, clear political strategy, attached to which is a small number of priorities which are then pursued in a unified fashion? Why, after seven years and tens of thousands of deaths and casualties, does no such thing exist, nor is it even close to existing? Is that not our real problem in Afghanistan?
Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Defence; Labour)
No, my Lords, I do not accept that. I do not think that anyone has ever suggested that the troops themselves can win the situation and bring stability to Afghanistan. Our overall objective has to be to make Afghanistan self-sustainable and to provide stability in that region so that it cannot be a safe haven. We have embraced the comprehensive approach—the combination of civil and military effort—and we have encouraged others to do so. At the end of the day, we need to see that progressing.
Lord Mayhew of Twysden (Conservative)
My Lords, is there not a worrying and increasing scepticism in this country about whether the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan represent a threat to United Kingdom security? Will the Government look again to see whether they can increase the amount of evidence that can safely and practically be brought forward to establish that that threat, which many of us accept, really exists?
Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Defence; Labour)
My Lords, I am glad that the noble and learned Lord accepts that the dangers exist. There is a problem in always explaining properly and fully the extent of the threat. I mention the Chief of the General Staff's comment today that we are there,
"to protect this country's security and our involvement is non-discretionary".
It is difficult to put all the information into the public domain, and certainly to do so as early as we would often like, but it is important to try to do that. I repeat that the security services have been straightforward in making their views clear that 75 per cent of the threats to us here originate in that area.
The Earl of Onslow (Conservative)
My Lords, is it not true that an impression of shilly-shallying is being given? President Obama has said that he is not going to make up his mind on troop levels until the political situation in Afghanistan has been sorted out. Today, it has been announced that President Karzai did not get 50 per cent of the vote, so there is argument there about that. There is no cohesion in Afghanistan. The terrorist threat comes from Pakistan, not Afghanistan, but it looks as if there is no cohesive strategy, as the noble Lord just said. Those of us who support our presence there feel that it could be much better enunciated.
Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ministry of Defence; Labour)
My Lords, the elections have proved very difficult. I remind the House that this is the first time the Afghans have been in control of running such elections. I do not think that there has been shilly-shallying on our part. I think that the Prime Minister's Statement was clear last week. He laid out the three conditions on which we would be increasing our troop numbers, and that was a realistic assessment of the situation.
As regards Pakistan, we have been very clear for a very long time that it is important in that region, and that threats come from the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region. It is impossible to think of it as a simple dividing line between the two countries. The document that the Government published last April related to policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan. That recognised well the links between the two.