Baroness Hanham (- Shadow Minister, Shadow Minister; Conservative)

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their assessment of progress by aircraft manufacturers in developing an aircraft which would qualify for the "green slot" outlined in the Government's response to Adding capacity at Heathrow airport.

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, we will be consulting next year on options for how the "green slot" principle would work when new capacity becomes available at Heathrow. The environmental performance of aircraft has improved considerably over the past 20 years and we are leading the debate in the International Civil Aviation Organisation to develop new standards for still quieter, cleaner and more fuel-efficient aircraft. A new standard for oxides of nitrogen emissions is expected next year, as is agreement on a metric for fuel efficiency leading to a later standard.

Baroness Hanham (- Shadow Minister, Shadow Minister; Conservative)

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but by definition green slots mean greener aircraft, as he suggested, so what is the extent of the action that aircraft manufacturers would need to take to achieve the aim of developing such a mode of transport in the short, medium and longer term? I understand that the consultation was due to take place this year. What has caused the delay and who has been consulted in this process?

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness to her new responsibilities on the Front Bench and say how much I look forward to debating transport issues with her in the period ahead.

We will be conducting the consultation next year. The principles being followed will base it on certification data for noise and oxides of nitrogen emissions, and we will consult widely in the industry as that consultation is conducted. The industry has responded to previous measures with very significant improvements in respect of oxides of nitrogen, fuel efficiency and noise pollution. Aircraft today are 70 per cent more fuel-efficient than the first commercial jets. Since standards for oxides of nitrogen were adopted in 1981, permitted emissions have reduced by 37 per cent and new aircraft have become significantly quieter over the past 20 years. The Airbus 380, for example, is 3 decibels quieter on take-off than the older Boeing 747s. That equates to a 60 per cent smaller footprint, despite the aircraft being much heavier. We are making significant investments to ensure that the next generation of aircraft improves still further on those standards. For example, we are assisting with £340 million of investment to Airbus for the development of the Airbus A350 XWB, £60 million to GKN for composite wing components, and £114 million to Bombardier Aerospace for the development of composite wings for the Bombardier CSeries programme. With these measures in place, we expect significant future improvements in the efficiency of aircraft.

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. At the moment, the Conservative Party has a different policy on aviation, depending on which tier of government you speak to. The Mayor of London appears to be in favour of a new four-runway airport in the estuary; that is in the largest Tory-controlled local authority in the country. The leader of Kent County Council, which is the next largest, is in favour of turning Manston on the north Kent coast into an international airport. The official spokesperson on transport for the Conservative Party refuses to engage in a debate on these issues, for reasons that may strike noble Lords as obvious given her problems with those controlling Conservative local authorities. However, she has said:

"We do not rule out the possibility of airport expansion in the south-east; nor"—

noble Lords will be glad to hear this—

"are we against flying".—[Hansard, Commons, 28/1/09; col. 305.]

The problem is that she is incapable of saying which airports people are to fly from in larger numbers in the years ahead.

Lord Broers (Crossbench)

Does the Minister agree that it is a pity that the very successful Silent Aircraft project that resulted from the Cambridge University-MIT collaboration several years ago is not being followed up in this country, whereas it has become a fairly major project for NASA?

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, I cannot comment on that, I am afraid, but I am sure that there must have been sound investment reasons why that was the case.

Lord Bradshaw (Liberal Democrat)

Would the Minister care to comment on his present view on the European Emissions Trading Scheme, on which the airline industry is putting huge emphasis and which is reported as probably not leading to genuine reductions in carbon emissions?

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, that is not a fair assessment. Under the ETS, aviation emissions cannot increase above 97 per cent of average 2004-06 levels in 2012 and 95 per cent in 2013 without trading carbon savings elsewhere. The savings will be very real.

Lord Grocott (Labour)

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend's comments about improving the environmental impact of aviation wherever possible, but would not the best thing that his department could do on the environmental agenda be to look at the huge benefits of rail transport? In particular, it could continue his acknowledged support for the rail industry by opening and developing, where possible, lines that have closed and, perhaps more importantly, look at the continued work on the development of high-speed rail links to the Midlands and the north.

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, I am never knowingly overbid when it comes to proposals for improving the railway system. I take my noble friend's remarks closely to heart.

Lord Clinton-Davis (Labour)

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, at the moment, it is essential to concentrate on Heathrow and its possible development, excepting always the possibility of fast rail access to Heathrow, which in my view is wholly important?

Lord Adonis (Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Labour)

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. It is important to understand that, even with the recession, monthly passenger traffic at Heathrow this September was only 0.3 per cent down on September 2008 and the airport is running at nearly 99 per cent capacity. The issue of further expansion at Heathrow will not go away; it needs to be kept under review. However, it is also important to look at the case for the high-speed line which would make Heathrow more accessible. The two are not either/or choices. Only 3 per cent of flights from Heathrow go to Manchester or Leeds, which are the two most popular destinations touted for a potential high-speed line, and in future all domestic and short-haul flights put together will account for only about 15 per cent of the traffic to and from Heathrow. The case for high-speed connections at Heathrow is very strong—we are looking at it—but that does not obviate the need to consider future capacity at Heathrow itself.