Police and Justice Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Lords at 6:30 pm on 11 July 2006.

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Photo of Baroness Scotland of Asthal Baroness Scotland of Asthal Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office, Minister of State (Home Office) (Criminal Justice and Offender Management) 6:30, 11 July 2006

I do not agree. Prior to reading the decision of Lord Justice Laws andMr Justice Ouseley, I would have said that, on the basis of belief and assumption. However, having read the judgment, I can see very clearly that the evidence and information provided was of a very substantial nature. So information has to be provided, and I argue that it is clear that that information is of a fairly high or good quality.

We do not accept that there is such a lack of reciprocity as to justify removing the United States from the group in which it currently sits with many other countries. If we remove the US for white-collar crime—or fraud, to give it its proper title—and for everything save terror, we will disable ourselves and the United States in dealing expeditiously with a number of other pernicious offences: sexual offences, such as rape; capital offences in the US, such as murder; and many others, too. I do not believe that that will inure to our country's benefit or indeed to that of the United States.

I have dealt in part with the third myth, which is that there is no reciprocal arrangement or direct reciprocity. As I tried to explain, and I hope the Committee will accept—although there is not exact reciprocity, which is almost impossible between any two legal systems—when we have looked at the matter—and we have been asked to do so many times; it was first raised, as the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, rightly said, in 2003—we have been content with the view that we arrived at a while ago: namely, that we have appropriate parity.

We have discussed this matter with the United States and are entirely satisfied that the way that they interpret the phrase that I have just used—

"such information as would provide a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offence for which extradition is requested"— is broadly equivalent to the way in which they use the phrase "probable cause". There is no dissonance between us and them. That is broadly the information required to justify the issue of an arrest warrant in both countries. That is why I say that there is parity and there is not an issue regarding lack of reciprocity. Perhaps I can underline the point on reciprocity. When US prosecutors make a request to us—and this is the point we have had clarified for us—they have to justify just the same test, because they have to include their domestic arrest warrant in their request to us. As I said, that means that they have to satisfy their own magistrate on probable cause. We believe that that helps to demonstrate reciprocity.