Committee (1st Day)

Part of Health and Social Care Bill – in the House of Lords at 4:00 pm on 25 October 2011.

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Photo of Lord Ribeiro Lord Ribeiro Conservative 4:00, 25 October 2011

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Mawhinney for referring to the words, "motherhood and apple pie", because when I first saw this amendment, that is the way it looked. When one reads proposed subsections (1), (2)-or parts of it- (4), (5) and (6), they seem pretty innocuous. However, in proposed subsection (2), we are talking about high principles, which none of us would disagree with-principles which crop up time and again throughout the Bill. Quality-something that the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, referred to in a speech a few weeks ago -equity, integration, accountability are all points that we will address in the coming weeks, and are fundamental aspects of this Bill. However, the phrase "not the market" is not a principle-it is a mechanism for delivering what one wants.

The noble Lord, Lord Peston, said that any form of market would turn the NHS into a privatised industry. May I remind him that during the time of the previous Administration, we had independent sector treatment centres? What were they if not an example of a market-driven industry? They were introduced-