Counter-Terrorism Bill

Part of Points of Order – in the House of Commons at 8:30 pm on 13 October 2008.

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Photo of Dominic Grieve Dominic Grieve Shadow Secretary of State (Home Office), Shadow Attorney General 8:30, 13 October 2008

Let me first thank the Home Secretary for her statement, and for giving me some very short prior sight of it. I hope that she will forgive me if I ask, in view of the very short time that I have had, when she first instructed parliamentary counsel to draft this alternative piece of legislation.

For all the way in which the Prime Minister's spin doctors have prevented the right hon. Lady from saying in straightforward terms that she is abandoning 42 days' pre-charge detention, may I say to her that many in this House, including many on her own Benches, will be delighted to learn of that decision? Can she confirm to the House what happened in the other place this evening? Will she confirm that the Government lost by 191 votes, that 24 Labour peers taking the Labour Whip voted against the Government—including Lord Irvine of Lairg, Lord Falconer of Thoroton and Lord Dubs—and that there were massive abstentions by Labour peers, so that the Government were able to muster only 118 votes from a total of well in excess of 200 peers taking the Labour Whip? Will she— [Interruption.]

Is not the reason why the right hon. Lady has had to make this statement that, as the debate on this matter progressed over a considerable period, the arguments in favour of the Government's measure became weaker and weaker, that the Director of Public Prosecutions, a past head of the Security Service, and many senior police officers and ex-police officers all said that they could not support the measure because it lacked any necessity, and indeed that when the measure came to this House on the other occasion, it was effectively rendered unworkable by the Government's and the Prime Minister's desperate attempts to salvage it? Is it not in fact the case that the Bill was introduced by the Prime Minister for reasons that still appear highly opaque and that certainly raise the taint of party political advantage, and that he then micro-managed it into oblivion by his own endeavours?

The right hon. Lady has presented to us this alternative piece of legislation. I find it one of the most bizarre things that I have ever read. Can she please explain why this measure is of any usefulness when, as she knows, at the start of the process, we said to her that we would be only too happy to co-operate with the Government on an amendment of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 to provide for almost identical powers to be exercised in the case of an emergency? Can she please explain here this evening how the measure that she is putting forward is in any way advantageous over that proposal, which we put to her and to the Prime Minister in complete good faith? If it is so advantageous, why is she not taking the opportunity of amending the Bill to put the measures in it when it returns to the House of Commons, or is it that she knows very well that, when it was submitted to scrutiny, she and the Prime Minister would be exposed yet again for putting forward hollow and unsustainable arguments?

I am afraid that the right hon. Lady somewhat demeans herself when she yet again returns to the argument that those who oppose the Government's measures are weak on terrorism. I have to say to her how profoundly I object to that. We on the Conservative Benches are perfectly prepared to be firm on terrorism, to take resolute measures and, if necessary, to pass difficult Bills, but they have to be credible and based on evidence, and they must not be put forward in a way that smacks of mere political posturing and gimmicks. I think that she knows in her heart, having inherited this mess, that that is exactly what this part of the Bill amounted to, and that that is why it has all come so badly unstuck. The fact that this poorly thought-out measure has gone is greatly to the credit of both Houses, but unfortunately it is not to the credit of the Government at all.

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Daniel P Cuelar
Posted on 17 Jan 2009 5:39 pm

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