Defence Airfields Review

– in the House of Commons at 12:22 pm on 17 November 2005.

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Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence 12:22, 17 November 2005

I should like to inform the House about developments in the defence airfields review. As my right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State for Defence told the House on 21 July 2004 in his statement on "Delivering Security in a Changing World: Future Capabilities", a review of defence airfields is under way to ensure the best use of the defence estate.

The review is taking the form of a series of business cases, two of which have addressed the basing requirements for new aircraft—the joint combat aircraft and the Nimrod MRA4. I am pleased to inform the House today of my basing decisions for those aircraft. The decisions will enable the detailed planning that precedes the introduction of new aircraft and facilitate wider estate rationalisation. We will consult the trade unions on this decision and the implications for civilian staff.

The JCA is due progressively to replace the Harrier fleet towards the middle of the next decade and the Nimrod MRA4 is expected to replace the Nimrod MR2 from around the end of this decade. The state-of-the-art, multi-role JCA will provide significantly increased performance and improved strike and reconnaissance capabilities, as well as incorporating stealth technology. The Nimrod MRA4 will offer enhanced surveillance support over a greater area in both the land and maritime environments. Final procurement decisions will be taken in due course.

The JCA basing study has been very thorough, including the widespread consultation of local authorities, and it considered a number of locations in two stages. On 10 March this year, I wrote to hon. Members affected by the outcome of the first stage, notifying them that RNAS Yeovilton, RAF Kinloss and RAF Wittering were discounted from further consideration. The study then concentrated on five locations—RAF Cottesmore in Rutland, RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire, RAF Lossiemouth in Moray, RAF Marham in Norfolk and RAF St. Mawgan in Cornwall. After careful consideration of the options, I have decided that the initial base for the JCA will be RAF Lossiemouth, currently home to the Tornado GR4, as it offers the most operationally satisfactory and cost-effective solution.

As I said in March, our work made an assumption that two JCA bases would be required. However, since it is too early to say whether a second base will be needed after the Tornado GR4 fleet goes out of service, I have decided that only one base should be selected at this stage. Further work will be undertaken in the event that a second base is required, but we are still a number of years away from making that decision. The study shows that either RAF Cottesmore or RAF Marham would be appropriate for the second base. In any event, both these RAF stations have defined uses into the next decade and beyond, with Harriers at RAF Cottesmore and Tornado GR4s at RAF Marham. RAF Leeming, currently a Tornado F3 base, was ruled out as a possible second base because of the disproportionately high noise impact.

RAF St. Mawgan was not selected because the business case demonstrated that it was an expensive option. I announced in March that that station would go into care and maintenance from April 2007 following the relocation of the Sea King helicopters currently based there. In the light of my decision on JCA basing, I can now confirm that there is no long-term RAF Strike Command requirement for the airfield. We shall therefore be considering alternative defence uses or possible disposal. The future basing of the remaining units at RAF St. Mawgan will also be considered.

I wrote to hon. Members in October 2004 to inform them that we were considering whether RAF Kinloss or RAF Waddington would be the most suitable base for the Nimrod MRA4. RAF Kinloss is currently the base for the Nimrod MR2, while RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire is our primary ISTAR—intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance—base. I subsequently advised the House in March 2005 that, irrespective of the outcome of the business case, we had decided to base the MRA4 initially at Kinloss as it would not be possible to prepare the necessary infrastructure at Waddington in time for the aircraft's arrival around the end of the decade.

The business case has now shown that, while there would be some advantages in basing the MRA4 with the other ISTAR assets at Waddington, it would not justify the financial investment, and I have therefore decided that the MRA4 will remain at Kinloss. That decision does not change RAF Waddington's role as the primary ISTAR base. On current planning, I also expect RAF Kinloss to become a base for some Tornado GR4s from around 2013. The arrival of the JCA at RAF Lossiemouth will require at least some of the Tornado aircraft based there to be relocated to RAF Kinloss until the aircraft goes out of service in the mid-2020s.

Those decisions form part of my Department's continuing efforts to rationalise our estate. Work is continuing and I will keep the House informed of developments. Today's announcement on JCA and MRA4 basing enables us to take work forward to begin to plan for the long-term infrastructure requirements of these key new capabilities. The choice of RAF Lossiemouth for the JCA and of RAF Kinloss for the Nimrod MRA4 confirms the long-term future for some 4,500 Ministry of Defence personnel and also safeguards a significant number of jobs in the Moray area. It is good news for the Moray area and underscores once again the MOD's commitment to Scotland.

Photo of Julian Lewis Julian Lewis Shadow Minister (Defence)

I thank the Minister for giving me advance notice of the statement. I would have thanked the BBC for the even-more-advanced notice that it would have given me had I been up at 6 am to read its online version, but sadly I was still fast asleep and unaware that a statement would be made.

The central points of the statement are uncontentious. It is obviously sensible that the new Nimrods should primarily be focused on the base where the existing Nimrods have been deployed successfully for so long. It is also obviously sensible that the new JCA should be focused on one of the bases where the Tornados have similarly been based for so long. There are, however, some undercurrents to this statement about which we must be concerned—most importantly the resiling from the earlier, pretty firm commitment that the JCA would have two bases. What does that tell us about future orders for the JCA? Does it suggest that in fact, as with so many other defence projects, when those orders come to fruition they will be found to be quantitatively much smaller than was originally promised and intended?

What does it tell us also about the thinking that is going on whereby numerous RAF bases appear to be scheduled for contraction? We heard that expression a couple of times in the statement in the context of wider estate rationalisation. I have reason to believe that St. Mawgan will not be the last base to close, by any means. It is clear from the statement that the reason that the choice was made not to put the Nimrods with the ISTAR Nimrods but to keep a separate base was not a strategic but an economic choice.

My primary question for the Minister is this: what consideration has been given to the nature of the threats that will face us in the short, the medium and the long term? In the short and medium terms, there is the prospect of a terrorist threat. What happens if a terrorist attack is successful on an RAF base in which all the facilities for one particular type of function have been concentrated?

In the medium to long term, we have to face up to the prospect, incredible though it may seem at the moment, that we might face a major war of a more conventional nature with a more conventional power. What prospect is there of the RAF being able to survive if its bases are vulnerable to attack because each individual role carried out by each separate part of the RAF is focused on a single site that, if put out of action, could mean that the RAF lost that function completely?

I turn briefly to some specifics. What is the future of the air sea rescue function currently operating out of St. Mawgan? What assessment has been made of the effect on the local economy?

What are the implications for the future of RAF Leeming? Reading between the lines of the statement, I would be a little concerned if my job depended on its having a long-term future.

What discussions has the Minister had with the Home Office on the security implications of the move towards reducing the number of bases so that more and more eggs are carried in fewer and fewer baskets?

What assessment has been made, on a strategic basis, of the long-term military threat facing this country?

Today's announcement has some central sensible elements, but it must be seen in the context of a continued hollowing out of the Royal Air Force, with the closure of Lyneham announced less than two months after the Prime Minister had told my hon. Friend Mr. Gray that it would have an assured future. As a result, heavy-lift equipment is now concentrated solely at a single base. Three Tornado squadrons have been scheduled for the future instead of the five called for by the strategic defence review. It has been announced that the Jaguar is to go out of service two years earlier than would be required if the Typhoon were able smoothly to take over its functions.

In themselves, the announcements contain sensible elements, but as part of a wider picture they give us great cause for concern.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

Let me try to deal with all the hon. Gentleman's major points.

From what appeared on the BBC this morning, I had an idea, in broad terms, that the media had got hold of the information. I was not best pleased, as I do everything to ensure that I come to the House first with such information. I am not accountable for speculation—[Interruption.] Someone says that it was on the media last Friday—I did not know that. The report suggested that Leuchars would feature in the statement, but it does not—that decision was announced some time ago. I can give the House the absolute assurance that I was not responsible.

I have also had to deal with pressure from Members who are affected by these decisions to meet them to notify them in advance of my statement to the House. I dealt with that by not meeting them, as I have to inform the House first.

Dr. Lewis said that he was asleep at 6 o'clock this morning. The Opposition should never sleep, but having been in this place for some time I am aware that they have been asleep for the past eight and a half years. Perhaps they are now waking up to certain realities.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the crucial issue of the two bases. I said that that is the preferred option, but we are some considerable time away from choosing an alternative second base. We are delaying not because of numbers but because the decision on any future basing is better taken at the time on the basis of the configuration of bases that are available. I indicated that Cottesmore and Marham had come out on top in that calculation. Nothing is written out, but nothing is written in as a certainty.

The hon. Gentleman is right about the wider estate rationalisation. We have to take into account a range of issues, not least of which are the risk factors associated with concentrating assets on individual bases. We do not believe that we face the threat that the hon. Gentleman describes. I do not think—I know that he is sensitive to this as well—that we should explore the nature of possible terrorist attacks. It would take an attack of a catastrophic nature completely to disable a facility. That could apply equally to single buildings where many administrative activities are undertaken. We are aware of how to deal with those issues.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned St. Mawgan in relation to the movement of the ISTAR activity. As far as I am aware—I have not seen the press release—the announcement is welcomed by people in the area, because they are seeking to build on the commercial aspect of the Newquay Cornwall airport. It is likely that that could have not easily coexisted with a military base. The announcement has been welcomed, by and large, by the local community—I appreciate that it is not unanimous—because it is better for the growth of the local economy.

A number of work streams are in place that could have a beneficial outcome for Leeming, but it is not yet at quite a mature enough level. We shall have to wait and see how that plays out. The same applies to Lyneham. Although we have decided to move the aircraft that were at Lyneham to Brize Norton, we have always said that Lyneham could have alternative defence uses. Mr. Gray, who represents the area, is very active in pursuing this. I pay him that compliment, although he was pretty condemnatory of me in business questions. Lyneham need not be a solely RAF solution—there could be an Army interest in the site. The same could apply to Leeming. As we rationalise the estate, we do not dispose of it willy-nilly if it may have another defence use. It would be wrong to walk away from valuable real estate in important parts of the country. There has been considerable investment in all that infrastructure, some of which needs significant upgrading none the less. We do not need as many as 50 airfields in terms of what we now seek to do.

The hon. Member for New Forest, East mentioned the possibility of an external threat from a hostile enemy. I shall deal with that in the debate later, but we do not envisage it as part of the immediate threat. We can debate that at another time. All the factors are being considered, but they do not weigh as heavily with the Ministry of Defence as they do with the hon. Gentleman.

Photo of Alison Seabeck Alison Seabeck Labour, Plymouth, Devonport

I shall be brief because I know that several hon. Members will speak specifically about the impact of the decisions on Cornwall, and we shall probe the Minister about the basis for his decision not to deploy the JCA at RAF St. Mawgan.

However, in the best interests of Cornwall and Plymouth—the economic interrelationship between Plymouth and Newquay airports is incredibly close—will my right hon. Friend ensure that all the parties involved, including the local authorities, trade unions, Ministry of Defence and the airlines, work together so that the transfer from the MOD to civilian management is smooth? We now need certainty.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

My hon. Friend's last point, which was about certainty, is valid. I came to the House to make the statement because I recognise the importance of JCA basing. When we undertook the study, we understood that we needed to be clear about what we were doing because it was proving difficult for the commercial interests on the airfield to envisage the future and, therefore, growth in the tourist trade, business and so on. I am working closely with the Department for Transport on that. Indeed, I spoke to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend Ms Buck, yesterday about this matter. Several issues must be tackled, but we shall deal with them sympathetically and constructively.

I stress that the Ministry of Defence cannot bear the cost of matters for which we have no responsibility. They must be met from other sources. We are on the case, we understand its importance and we want Newquay Cornwall airport to grow successfully. We shall do all that we can to facilitate that.

Photo of Michael Moore Michael Moore Shadow Secretary of State for Defence

However inelegantly the information may have got into the public domain, I am sure that all hon. Members welcome the fact that the Minister has come here today to make the statement and has brought greater clarity, at least for some. He has made welcome announcements for communities in Moray, but many in Cornwall, notwithstanding his comments about reports from there, will be disappointed.

Does the uncertainty about the need for a second base for the JCA reflect some continuing doubt about the availability of the aircraft, or simply the fact that the MOD has still to decide how many it may need? Although the Minister said that there would be support for Cornwall, what impact assessment has been made of the nature of the decision and its effect on Cornwall? What specific measures will he bring to bear to help the economy in that area?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's opening comments. Let me deal with the last point first. The MOD is not responsible for taking on all the attendant responsibilities—that is what local authorities and other Departments are for. We try to minimise the adverse impact as best we can. We try to operate a good-neighbour policy whereby we work alongside the local community.

We understand the impact in number terms. Two lodger units remain at St. Mawgan and they engage many RAF personnel and some United States personnel. We are considering moving the two units elsewhere to give more coherence to what they do. One has a US input into what it wants to do about future use. Although we are involved in the care and maintenance of the airfield, two other announcements are likely to be made later. However, I am advised that conclusions will not be reached until 2010.

There have been competing pressures on the decision about Cornwall. Some did not want us to remain on the airfield because we could not grow its commercial aspect. Others said that we could co-exist. We conducted a sensitivity analysis to ascertain what was practical, bearing in mind that the aircraft will be noisy. The last thing people who are waiting to go on holiday want to hear is a noisy aircraft taking off or landing. Our best analysis was that it was possible to co-exist but that it would not be perfect. Cornwall county council concluded that it would be better to develop the airfield commercially after we gave them our best assurances on the noise thresholds.

The noise thresholds are currently understood on the basis of prototype analysis, because we do not have the aircraft. The people who give advice are good technical experts and they say that the noise will be the same or approximately the same as the prototype level. There will be no great variation. If there were, the adverse impact would be even greater. However, there will be no major variations that would have altered the calculations. We now have clarity, which allows all the relevant agencies to move forward with developing that important part of the country. A developing commercial airfield there is desirable.

The hon. Gentleman is right that the announcement is good news for Moray and for Scotland.

Photo of Douglas Hogg Douglas Hogg Conservative, Sleaford and North Hykeham

Will the Minister confirm that the decision that Nimrod MRA4 should remain at RAF Kinloss will not prejudice the existing deployment of aircraft or personnel at RAF Waddington, which is in my constituency, or in any way diminish operations from that base?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

The right hon. and learned Gentleman should have heard me say that Waddington remains the hub for ISTAR. The preferred option was to co-locate all the aircraft on one airfield. However, the cost implications were so great that it was simply not advisable. Had I done that, at a considerable cost to defence, I am sure that the right hon. and learned Gentleman would criticise me for mis-spending money that could be better spent elsewhere.

I have no information that people will be moved from Waddington because of the replacement of MR2 with MRA4. There will be fewer MRA4s in the fleet. As the JCAs come to Lossiemouth, the GR4s will move to Kinloss to take up the free space. I do not anticipate—there has been no indication of it whatever—that Waddington will be adversely affected.

Photo of James Arbuthnot James Arbuthnot Chair, Defence Committee, Chair, Defence Committee

Where will the repairs to the aircraft take place?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I should have thought that the right hon. Gentleman would know that. I appreciate that he is considering support for our current fleet of aircraft as outlined in the Select Committee on Defence. The through-life support for aircraft, whether it takes place on the base or elsewhere, will be part of the final contract arrangements. We are some way from reaching a conclusion, but we are moving increasingly towards industry support for whole-life support. However, we must take account of the crisis manpower requirement because we need the skills in the RAF to do that. There will therefore be a mix that is not dissimilar to our new approach to servicing existing aircraft.

Photo of Anne McIntosh Anne McIntosh Shadow Minister (Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs)

The Minister will understand my profound disappointment at the implications of the statement for the future of RAF Leeming. He assured me in the Corridor after his last appearance at Defence questions that we would get a full statement on a defence airfield review "soon". Why is he releasing the information on a case-by-case basis? Why does not he undertake a fundamental, comprehensive, strategic, national review of all 50 airfields and their future?

In the Vale of York, we have RAF Leeming. I pay tribute to the contribution that the air crew, navigators and everyone on the base made when they were deployed during the Iraq hostilities and subsequently. RAF Linton is one of only two air training schools and we also have the Army helicopter base at Dishforth. Those based at RAF Leeming, or about to be based there, are very concerned about the long-term future. The Minister owes them today some explanation as to why they have been considered for the Typhoon and ruled out for that, and considered for the JCA and now ruled out for that? Where exactly does that leave RAF Leeming and the other bases that have not been considered as part of the strategic national review, which he owes to the House today?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I do not think that I owe it to the House today; I owe it to the House to get it right. The hon. Lady, to whom I have spoken more than once in the Corridor—

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

If Mr. Forth is even interested in the subject, I am prepared to speak to him in the Corridor. Miss McIntosh, however, is only remembering part of our discussion. The other part concerned why we do not have the all-singing, all-dancing comprehensive response. I tried to explain to her that what we must do is a bit like three-dimensional chess in some ways. We are having to unpick this on a case-by-case basis, because we must release assets, determine what will happen at certain bases, what the impact of that will be elsewhere, and what the downstream impact of that is in terms of other defence use. If we have to wait for all that to take place, the necessary infrastructure and planning work for the JCA and MRA4 would be delayed. That would delay its coming into service, which would not be desirable. That is a complex pattern, and I fully accept that the uncertainty about some airfields and airbases is not good. I meet a large number of our personnel, both at bases and operationally, and I must deal with those issues. Those personnel are mature enough, however, to understand that we must move forward on a progressive and proper analysis of what will happen.

The hon. Lady asked why RAF Leeming has not been selected as a third base for the Typhoon. That decision is some way down the line. We have made orders for the first two tranches, and while we are committed to the third tranche, that is some way downstream. If that happens, it could have a beneficial impact on RAF Leeming. She also knows that other defence interests are considering the matter, and I shall not go into all the detail, as she said that her hairdresser knows more about it than I do—she said that in the Chamber, I think, not in a Corridor discussion. As we begin to consider all the different future uses, someone gets to know about it, someone talks, and the rumour starts running. We must examine the matter, however, because we cannot come to the best conclusion otherwise. I am sorry that the hares start running—

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

And hairdressers. I should have thought about that one.

It is a complex picture. I pay tribute to the staff dealing with this—the RAF and civilians—who must work their way through all this. We are trying to do what is right in terms of future basing, to make sure that we can have a long-term future and give that commitment to our personnel, both civilian and RAF, in relation to their location choice, where they buy their house and where they bring up their families.

Photo of Angus Robertson Angus Robertson Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Defence), Shadow SNP Spokesperson (Foreign and Commonwealth Office)

May I thank the Minister for the advance copy of his statement today? It has also been interesting to read in the media the informed reports about today's announcements since last Friday. Considering the efforts by some in the Ministry of Defence to run down and close bases, today's announcement is a tremendous success for local campaigners and the service community in Moray. They have resolutely made the military and economic case for the retention of both RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Kinloss. The decision is a victory for common sense. Can he confirm, however, whether the Ministry of Defence will continue with the nearly 1,000 job losses announced earlier this year, which will cost the Moray economy £20 million a year?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I knew that the hon. Gentleman would introduce a sour note. We have discussed the reasons for the change, which is part of a better utilisation of personnel, and ensures that we get maximum benefit from our investment in defence. The aircraft that will be based there will be a very important part of NATO's capability. He represents a party that is opposed to NATO. I should have thought that he would say, "We don't want anything flying in support of NATO in my area." He also represents a party that only too recently called the Union flag the "butcher's apron". I have asked him to repudiate that time and again, and he has not done so.

I well understand the importance of this matter to the hon. Gentleman's area, and where we have made decisions that have adversely affected other areas, there have also been strong campaigns. This is not, as he said, a victory for common sense, but a victory for what is right for defence. [Interruption.] Well, he is talking about it on the basis that it has been designed to suit the needs of the local community, but it has been designed to suit the needs of defence. He is not a strong supporter of what we do in defence, and perhaps he should reflect on that.

Photo of Robert Key Robert Key Conservative, Salisbury

Please will the Minister of State explain what will be the impact on the aircraft testing and evaluation regimes and other functions at the military airfield at Boscombe Down, which employs more than 2,000 of my constituents? Perhaps he would prefer to write to me in some detail.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I am not announcing anything about Boscombe Down. There are 50 airfields, and as far as I remember I do not think that I was told anything about Boscombe Down in advance of this briefing. If I can write to him usefully about anything related to it, I shall do so. If he does not get a letter, it is probably because there is nothing that I can tell him.

Photo of James Gray James Gray Conservative, North Wiltshire

The Minister accused me of being mildly condemnatory during business questions. He is quite wrong—I greatly admire the way in which he has handled these difficult, sensitive announcements, and I think that he does a rather good job of it. I welcome the hint during his statement that the regrettable removal of the Hercules aircraft from RAF Lyneham might none the less be mitigated by some other basing consideration. I shall not press him on his thinking on that, because I am sure that he would not want to say anything at this stage, but can he indicate how long that thinking might take, as people in and around RAF Lyneham in my constituency are extremely concerned about the future?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I would like to give the hon. Gentleman a better answer, and I am grateful for his compliments, but a number of options are available, and we must balance what is right for defence. A decision might develop that is right for the RAF, but the Army might come up with a different solution, so we must then consider which will provide the best efficiency gain and the best delivery of what we seek. We are not yet at a mature enough stage to say what is happening. He might find that hairdressers in his constituency are picking up rumours about what is happening. Once we reach a point of relative maturity, I shall inform hon. Members, and if the matter is of sufficient weight, I shall inform the House through an oral statement.

Photo of Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Opposition Deputy Chief Whip (Commons)

The Minister's announcement in relation to concentrating certain operations on certain airfields applies to my constituents, because the decision on RAF Lyneham, to which my hon. Friend Mr. Gray has referred, will mean a concentration of flying at RAF Brize Norton and consequent knock-on effects at RAF Fairford. All the other announcements today have the same effect in terms of aircraft noise, however. Will the Minister consider two things? First, wherever possible, ought not the maximum amount of training be done on simulators to reduce aircraft noise? Secondly, with all the changes, will he undertake to do the maximum amount of liaison with local democratically elected bodies—district councils, borough councils and parish councils?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

The hon. Gentleman will be only too well aware that a lot of simulation takes place, and as the technology for that advances, the capacity and quality of output also increases. People cannot be trained to fly on simulators alone, however, especially if they are training to fly fast jets. I am not an expert, but I know that the people who need to get those planes into the sky need to be familiar with all their characteristics and to put the physical machine under test as well as themselves as flyers. We try to marry all that up.

On local interests in relation to environmental issues such as noise pollution, we deal with that. We have a very good relationship with the communities around our airfields. If a community suddenly became very negative about an airfield, however, and no one wanted it, that would also have to be taken into account. Those who make the comments have to be clear about what they want, rather than just nipping away on the sidelines about it. Do they want an airfield there; are they going to be good neighbours? They have been and I pay tribute to them for all the support that they have given us in the past.

The JCA is a noisy aircraft and will not be without impact on RAF Lossiemouth and the community. A number of houses and farms will have to be moved if the footprint is as we anticipate. There will be some adverse impact that will have to be attended to, but the community of Moray is very keen to get the aircraft and I am grateful that they are.

Photo of Dan Rogerson Dan Rogerson Shadow Minister (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)

I cannot say how important this announcement is for my constituency and, indeed, for the whole of Cornwall. The Minister is aware that I have sought a meeting with him for some time—in fact, since the general election. I was promised a meeting this morning and three representatives of civilian employees at St. Mawgan came to the Ministry of Defence to attend at 9.30 this morning, only to be told that the meeting was not taking place. I thus seek the Minister's assurance that he will work in close consultation with service personnel and especially civilian personnel at St. Mawgan whose jobs are now at stake. About 500 jobs are involved.

Will the Minister also assure the House that he will work with other Departments, local government and other partners to ensure that, if the station is to close in future, any transfer to civilian use has maximum support from the Ministry of Defence? It must be done sensitively to ensure that the transition creates more jobs and protects the fragile Cornish economy.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I apologise for the mix-up about this morning's meeting. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that, in any case, I could not have spoken to him about the detail of what was happening in his area in advance of my statement today. It was truly a mix-up for which I apologise, particularly to those who travelled, but it was for good and sensible reasons. If the hon. Gentleman had risen in his place to say that he had had a meeting with me this morning, I can only imagine what would have happened.

I am too well aware of the impact of the closure. That is why I announced that changes would be likely up to 2010 in respect of the other two lodger units there. It is a significant development for St. Mawgan airfield and the wider area. I give the hon. Gentleman my absolute assurance that, within the limits of what we can do, we will work with all agencies. I hope that he will not ask in future for the MOD to spend money when it is not for defence purposes. We cannot do that. If developments have to take place elsewhere, other Government agencies, local authority interests and perhaps commercial interests will be involved.

As to the disposal of the airfield, I hope that the hon. Gentleman understands—I would have told him this morning—that we have to look at alternative defence uses. That is our first priority. That is what we have done at RAF Lyneham, RAF Leeming and elsewhere. The indications are that such use is unlikely, but we still have to go through the process. Defence Estates will get ownership and then offer it round to see whether others are interested. It will have to take a quick decision; disposal through the appropriate mechanisms will then have to take place. That is where we will work sensitively with local interests to ensure that it is best handled. We can then make a transition to a commercial airfield, if that is what is to happen, and help the local economy in that part of the country.

Photo of Henry Bellingham Henry Bellingham Opposition Whip (Commons)

The joint combat aircraft is obviously fundamental to our country's defence future. However, both the Minister and his ministerial colleagues have always promoted the JCA on the basis that two airfields would be required. Today's statement is good news for Lossiemouth. Given that I represent west Norfolk and that RAF Marham is a huge employer in the region, I would like the second base to go there. Whether it is indeed located there or at RAF Cottesmore, it is vital that we have a decision on that second base. The Minister said in his statement that we are still a number of years away from taking that decision, but why? Why cannot he tell us much sooner where that second base will be?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

Because I do not have the information that would allow me to take that decision. There will be a phased introduction of the new aircraft, but we are a considerable number of years away from the first tranche—if that is how it is to be defined—perhaps in 2013–14. Whenever that first tranche is introduced, it will then take time for it to build up to full strength. If I were to take a decision now, in 2005, on something that will happen 15 years away, it would not serve any useful purpose, because so many things could change over that period. We may have more or fewer of those aircraft; there may be a new aircraft type, for example. I cannot look that far ahead.

What we have done is put down costing indicators for both Marham and Cottesmore, so that we can say to the other two stations under consideration that they are ruled out for whatever reasons are decided. The Ministry could then progressively look forward towards the best and most cost-effective solution.

As to the idea that at some time in the future, there will be free resources sitting in the Ministry of Defence so that it can spend money at will and not have to take difficult decisions, that is not likely to happen for many millennia ahead. I believe that all future Governments will have to live within big demand processes for new platforms and that aspirations will always outstrip what will be available from central resources. We have to balance all the different aspects and that is what we are doing. We are about to have a debate in which we can discuss that matter in greater detail.

Photo of Lembit Öpik Lembit Öpik Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Affairs, Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Welsh Affairs

In his review, has the Minister considered the relationship between military airfields and general aviation? While military air controllers consistently offer a superlative service to general aviation, is the Minister aware that, on occasion, general aviation pilots are forced to pay a colossal amount for approved landings at defence airfields? I do not expect the Minister to be apprised of the details of that matter now, so would he be willing to discuss it outside the Chamber in order better to understand this simple but serious issue and find any potential solutions to the problem?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

We have discussions in the Corridors about a whole range of important issues. I am not aware of the actual costing threshold, but if the hon. Gentleman is saying that we should charge commercial interests less, whereby the defence resource goes down, I would not be up for that.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

In that case, we should have a discussion elsewhere. If the hon. Gentleman would care to write to me with some proposals, perhaps that would be the best way of taking the issue forward.

Photo of Brian Jenkins Brian Jenkins Labour, Tamworth

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement, but what is coming across—he must now admit it—is a degree of confusion. People find that these decisions take them by surprise. Would it not be better if he and his Department took a more personal interest in the guidelines within which they operate? What is a good business case and what weight is given to the community? Then, hon. Members would better know the requirements for those based in our areas. We would not be taken by surprise when the announcements are made.

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I am usually grateful for my hon. Friend's questions, but I am not so sure that I am on this occasion. I do not think that people should be surprised. That is why I indicated in my statement all the different points where we gave advice on the development of the process. We have written to hon. Members and indicated to them through other means when certain airfields were no longer being considered. I announced to the House the five airfields that were being considered. After a detailed analysis, we have now come to the end of that process.

As to investment appraisal and the business case, we make as much information available as we can, but there are sometimes commercially sensitive issues involved and I know that my hon. Friend would understand that we should not release such information. We try to make information available to the people who matter most—our own personnel, and, in respect of civilian people, the trade unions. As I said, we are now entering a process of consultation on all these matters and we will take the views of trade unions into account. We try to be as open and transparent as we possibly can, but at the end of the day I have to get a final paper from the Department, make my decision and then announce it. I can think of no better way of doing that than by ensuring that hon. Members are given best advice through oral and written statements and other means. If anyone has a particular interest and if there is a purpose to be served by it, we seek to meet them well in advance of any announcement.

Photo of Mark Pritchard Mark Pritchard Conservative, The Wrekin

May I thank the Minister for his good grace in apologising to Mr. Rogerson for cancelling his appointment? What reassurance can he give my constituents that he will not cancel his appointment with me at 5.15 pm on 28 November to discuss the job cuts at the Army Base Repair Organisation? While some elements of the defence review are welcome, is this not another case of the MOD's leading on estates and economics, rather than national security and defence?

Photo of Adam Ingram Adam Ingram Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence

I do not think that I will apologise to the hon. Gentleman for cancelling our original meeting. He was invited to a meeting arranged for 29 November, and he then called my office to ask whether we could meet instead on 28 November, because he did not want to participate in such a meeting with the others attending. Moreover, I was not aware that he had been put in the diary for the 28th, so there is no chance of such a meeting happening, particularly given his heated exchange with my member of staff today. He can participate in the 29 November meeting, for which there is plenty of time for him to plan in his diary. Representatives of the various interests will be there to discuss these matters. So I am making myself available to MPs to deal with what is a major issue, as the hon. Gentleman correctly suggests. I do not accept his description of what we are doing, however. I note in passing that he has apparently called for those engaged at the location in question to come out on strike. If so, he does not have the security of the country at heart.