Welfare Reform Bill

Part of Orders of the Day – in the House of Commons at 8:47 pm on 24 July 2006.

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Photo of Sammy Wilson Sammy Wilson Shadow Spokesperson (Communities and Local Government), Shadow Spokesperson (Education) 8:47, 24 July 2006

This legislation, at least as it stands, does not apply to Northern Ireland. As one who the chattering classes have described as coming from the celtic fringe, I hope that I do not incur the wrath of others on the Opposition Benches for taking part in this debate. I wanted to join in the general outbreak of consensus and good will that there has been on this Bill towards the end of this Session for two reasons in particular—first because it is an important part of the economic policy that will keep the United Kingdom working well, and secondly because it is an important micro-economic policy that deals with a vulnerable group of people, whom we simply cannot dismiss and say that they have no part in the economic life of our country.

I hope and believe that the Bill will eventually apply to Northern Ireland, because much of what has been said about other parts of the United Kingdom here tonight applies even more so to Northern Ireland. It is well known that members of my party do not trot into the Lobby with the Government too often, but I congratulate them at least on the macro-economic policy in Northern Ireland, where we are now experiencing the lowest level of unemployment that I can remember in my lifetime. However, our economy still contains significant pockets of people who have faced unemployment for a long time. In parts of Northern Ireland, up to 40 per cent. of the working population is on incapacity benefit, and I do not believe that all those people cannot contribute in some way to the economic life of that part of the United Kingdom. If the Bill were to channel such people back into work, it would do them a favour, and it would do our economy good.

As Natascha Engel has said, the system will examine people's personal capabilities. I have dealt with too many constituency cases in which GPs have treated people week after week, month after month and year after year simply by writing them a line, because they are disabled.

On the assessment for incapacity benefit, 70 per cent. of those whose cases are reviewed in Northern Ireland have the outcome changed on appeal, which indicates that the initial assessment is not done that well. People's personal capabilities are important, and perhaps the new system will focus on the contribution that people can make.

I have a couple of concerns that I would like the Minister to address. First, Age Concern has pointed out that even under the existing pathways programme, the people who do not get moved into work easily are over 50, but I cannot see anything in the Bill indicating that there will be a greater success rate for over-50s.

Secondly, if we are to meet the Government's target in Northern Ireland, more than 30,000 people who are currently regarded as disabled in some way must be put into jobs, which will require a massive change, and the change will probably need to be greater in the public sector than the private sector. Given the importance of the public sector in Northern Ireland, it worries me that we are holding out the promise of a new route to work for people, who may find themselves in endless work-related programmes, but may never get into work.

Some time ago, I was involved in a voluntary sector project to get hard-to-place youths into work. The success rate was one thing that gave those who joined the scheme a bit of drive—85 per cent. of those who went through the scheme got into full-time employment, which injected discipline into youngsters who might otherwise have found it difficult to stay on the programme. Unless such success rates are achieved, people will quickly become fed up and think that the scheme is just another failed initiative.

Giving employers sanctions has generated some concern, but I do not share that worry. In my experience of that youth project, the employer having sanctions can sometimes be important, because the people who are directly involved can best judge whether a sanction is appropriate and which sanction is appropriate. I am not therefore worried about the fact that employers will have the ability to impose sanctions.

Turning quickly to housing benefit, I have two concerns. First, I am concerned about the payment going directly to the tenant, who will then pass it on to the landlord. Some Members have argued that that is good because it teaches people who receive the benefit responsibility, but many, sad to say, are unable to bear that responsibility because when they get the money they will immediately spend it on drink, drugs or whatever, or if they do not, their husband, wife or partner will. If the money goes into a bank account, sometimes the bank will take it. There is already an element of responsibility involved anyway. Most people do not get 100 per cent. of housing costs met through housing benefit, so they have to budget somewhat for housing. We need to consider whether direct payment is appropriate in all circumstances. The Minister said earlier on that there would be opportunities for some people to have money paid directly to the landlord, but that merely puts in place yet another expensive bureaucracy for assessing who should have direct payment and who should not. Either we have it or we do not.

Secondly, I am concerned about the issue of housing benefit being withdrawn in the case of antisocial behaviour. We need to impose as many sanctions as possible on those who engage in antisocial behaviour and make people's life a misery on estates. However, I wonder how much of this part of the Bill is down to getting a headline in the papers, some of which have already zoomed in on it and said that people will lose housing benefit if they do not behave. However, the Minister has made it clear that he is already imposing a restriction. When I asked him about it earlier, he said that there is no chance of families with children being turfed out on to the street. If so, we are already ruling out a whole range of people who may cause misery for their neighbours. We have to ask ourselves when and how this measure will be applied if it is to be effective.

I trust that the Bill will be introduced in parallel in Northern Ireland. That is necessary given the circumstances of those in that part of the United Kingdom who find themselves out of work and on incapacity benefit without some of the support that is required. Antisocial behaviour is a big issue on many estates, so any sanctions that can be imposed, albeit that they have been weakened by what the Minister has said, will be an important element of the armoury in fighting against that blight on society.

I appreciate the opportunity to take part in this Second Reading debate and trust that some of the points that have been raised will be teased out more fully so that the Bill returns in an even better form.