Exclusion of Ministers from Office

Part of Orders of the Day — Northern Ireland Bill – in the House of Commons at 6:15 pm on 23 July 1998.

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Photo of Paul Murphy Paul Murphy The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office 6:15, 23 July 1998

We have had an extremely important debate—possibly one of the most important debates during our consideration of the Bill in Committee. It partly, but not completely, mirrors the debate on the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Bill. The circumstances are different and we are considering a different law, but some of the points that were made in respect of that Bill were made in respect of this one, too.

I fully acknowledge the importance and seriousness of the issues that reflect real concerns not just of right hon. and hon. Members, but of very large numbers of people who live and work in Northern Ireland.

I also understand the point made by the right hon. Member for Bracknell (Mr. MacKay). I know that he is fully committed to the agreement and its success. I am grateful to him for his kind words. I do not know whether he knows everything that I know, but I admire the fact that he spoke in the spirit of the agreement that he and I support.

I accept that those who did not support the agreement spoke with complete sincerity on the basis that we need to address the issue. We have partly done so in this debate. I hope to answer a number of points that have been raised, and to make some points of my own.

The debate is set against a backcloth of appalling violence and civil unrest in the past three weeks in Northern Ireland. There has been violent disorder, disgraceful attacks on the forces of law and order, and the deaths of three young boys. Many right hon. and hon. Members have referred to the dreadful beating of Mr. McKenna and the murder of Mr. Kearney. Of course, the Government join all right hon. and hon. Members in utterly condemning such murders and so-called punishment beatings which, as a number of hon. Members have said, have no place in a civilised society. A vigorous police investigation into Mr. Kearney's death is under way. The RUC is pursuing the possibility that the murder was carried out by the Provisional IRA. We await the outcome of those investigations.

It is important to consider the issues in the context not just of what has happened in the past three or four weeks, but of what has happened since the referendum. The issues were rightly raised during the referendum campaign. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister sought to respond to those concerns carefully, responsibly and within the terms of the agreement. He clarified them in his speech at Balmoral on 14 May. Clause 23 reflects what the parties negotiated in the agreement and what the Prime Minister promised during the referendum campaign.

The details of the clause are important, but we must not lose sight of the fundamental principles underlying the agreement. The first is set out in paragraph 25 of strand 1, which says: Those who hold office should use only democratic, non-violent means and those who do not should be excluded or removed from office". As my right hon. Friend said in his Balmoral speech: Those who have used the twin tactics of the ballot box and the gun must make a clear choice. There can be no fudge between democracy and terror.