Orders of the Day — Agriculture

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 29 June 1964.

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Photo of Mr Thomas Peart Mr Thomas Peart , Workington 12:00, 29 June 1964

Not yet.

The agricultural issue is not one between public and private enterprise, between planning and no planning, between organised marketing and free trade. It is not an issue between cooperation or non-co-operation. The question is: what should be the degree of partnership between the State—that is, public enterprise—and private enterprise? How far should the Government intervene? To what degree shall there be State or Government planning? What degree shall there be of organised marketing? What degree of co-operation will take place between private producers, and how far will the State—that is, the Government—help in this process? The real issue is, how far is the community involved?

First, how far will we give Exchequer aid? Secondly, how far will we still plan assured markets and guaranteed prices? Thirdly, how far will we keep intact the basic principles of the 1947 and 1957 Acts? I have never said that these Acts should be sacrosanct. They should be adapted to changing conditions. What will be the degree of planning within the industry itself, and what form will it take? Will it be private and public, or will there be a combination of both?

The remarks of the Minister at Exeter were very silly. They were almost as stupid as the fatuous remark of the Prime Minister that we have a junk yard of nationalisation. The National Agricultural Advisory Service is a nationalised concern. Is that a junk yard? I should like to know. I ask the Prime Minister, who is here: is the Forestry Commission, for which the Ministry of Agriculture has a responsibility, a junk yard of nationalisation? Is the position in agriculture, where the State has intervened very well, in keeping with his frank talk? Will the Prime Minister respond to my challenge? Are these bodies covered by his silly remark? He remains silent. No doubt he will reserve his answer for Conservative women's gatherings, where he cannot be heckled.

I come to some of the main issues in agriculture. We must consider the issue of support and production, the problem of marketing and the rôle of imports and the structure and our obligations. I have always argued that the deficiency payment system is a right one. I have accepted it in principle. I have also accepted the view that production grants are a means of injecting capital into different parts of the industry. Nevertheless, this Exchequer support should be controlled and supervised, and that is why, on previous occasions, we have always sought, in administration, to analyse critically some aspects of Government financial policy.

I have accepted, too, the principle that we must have standard quantities. This is a view which we stressed in the 1947 Act, in which it was said that we should produce such part of the nation's food and other agricultural produce as in the national interest it is desirable to produce in the United Kingdom". Incidentally, that part of the Act was opposed by hon. Members opposite, but now they accept standard quantities. Will these standard quantities be restricted? The Scottish National Farmers' Union has been critical. The National Farmers' Union for England and Wales has accepted the principle of guarantees and standard quantities with reservations. Nevertheless, as I have said, we on this side are prepared to examine where support has gone and how far it has benefited the industry.

As I have shown, many small producers have faced hardships. Many of them have not benefited from the increased Exchequer support. We have the example of our small milk producers. Whether the Minister likes it or not, there could well be a milk crisis this year if we have unfavourable weather conditions. We have seen a pattern emerging in the industry. [Laughter.] This is no laughing matter. I will give the Secretary of State for Scotland the figures for England and Wales. I am sure that the figures for Scotland are just as bad.

From 1955 to 1964, there has been a strong decline in the number of registered milk producers. The reason is that they have been dissatisfied with the Government's pricing policy. In 1955, the number of registered producers was 142,792. By 1960, it had dropped to 123,137. By the end of March this year, it had dropped again to 105,576. I know that many of these producers have not gone out of business; they have switched production. But many of them—in Cornwall, Devon, and other parts of the West Country and in Cumberland and Wales—have had to face a very serious crisis for a long time as a result of the policy pursued by the Government.

There has been a failure on the part of the Government to make their intentions clear. This view has been expressed by many leaders in the industry. What is the production policy of the Government? I should like to see a five-year policy. I believe that this is possible. The representatives of the industry and the Government could meet every year during the February Price Review negotiations. There should be some indication of a broad policy pursued by the Government. This view is held by the National Economic Development Council. In the Council's "Growth of the United Kingdom Economy to 1966" there are some suggestions for the Government to take up.

The section dealing with agriculture, on page 67, states—and no doubt this may coincide with the N.F.U.'s point of view: Effective planning is limited to some extent by uncertainly about national food requirements and prices of farm products. Particular problems to which the industry has drawn attention are"— and it then goes on to talk about more effective marketing, and so on. It is accepted that we could improve our production policy by more effective planning. That is the Opposition's view.

We have always argued that a deficiency payment system working in a free market will inevitably produce the crises which we had at the end of 1961. In February, 1962, the Minister had to come to the House and ask for an increased estimate of nearly £90 million. That is why we argue that the main emphasis should be on a marketing policy.

For the last 10 years the Government have done literally nothing. We have had a period of drift. The Minister has dillied and dallied. He is a Minister of dilly and dally. He has always said, "Leave it to the industry. I wash my hands of it. It is not for me". He said that over meat. He would never have introduced the Verdon Smith Committee if there had not been that crisis. It was during the crisis debate over the Estimates that he announced the Verdon Smith Committee. He says, "Leave it to a committee. Let the committee come to conclusions and we will look at the matter again." No doubt we shall have a period of delay.

What do the Government propose to do about the Verdon Smith Committee? I have tabled Questions on this matter. Are we to have a reply before the General Election, or will the Government evade the issue? The importance of meat marketing has been brought out by the recent shortages of beef following reduced imports from our traditional suppliers like Argentina. No doubt today many hon Members will devote their speeches exclusively to the question of meat. Are the Government certain that the meat crisis, which is still with us—I use the word "crisis" in a wide sense—is due to shortages because of the position in Argentina?

On page 36 of the Commonwealth Economic Committee's Intelligence Bulletin for June, 1964, there are some extremely interesting figures about Argentina's position. They show that Argentine exports of meat to the United Kingdom from January to April, 1963, were running at 100,000 tons. They are now down to 51,000 tons. But for France the figures for the first few months of 1963 was 300 tons. The latest figure is 2,700 tons For Italy, the figure was 27,000 tons. The figure for 1964 is 36,000 tons. For Western Germany, the figure has gone from 5,500 to 26,200 tons. For Switzerland, it has gone from 600 to 4,100 tons. For other European countries, too, there has been a tremendous increase.

In other words, a large proportion of Argentine exports is now going to the Common Market countries and Switzerland. Is that the real reason for the trouble, or is the drought in the Argentine the reason why we have not had supplies in this country? We negotiated a voluntary agreement with the Argentine. We want to know now what the Government are doing about Commonwealth supplies, too. What assurances are we giving to Australia and New Zealand, for example? We have a right to know because our Commonwealth producers were for some time discouraged by the Government's attitude towards the Common Market.

In the pig and bacon industry, are we still to have uncertainty and a policy of "stop-go", such as we had for a long time? Our producers want to know what the Government's intentions are. No doubt, the Minister has read what is said in the editorial in the July issue of that very important journal, Pig Farming:From the pig industry's point of view, the Government's record has been one long failure to foresee the need for expansion. This is not Transport House speaking. These are the words of the leading pig farming journal: Two years ago the Ministry back room boys by their miscalculations of the market's needs deprived producers, it is estimated, of £7 million, and at the last Price Review Mr. Soames blundered when he cut prices by 6d. a score, knowing that it would be touch and go whether we could fulfil our share of the home bacon market. In pig farming there is great uncertainty, because the Government have had no marketing policy.

We have had no indication of the Government's policy for horticulture. Over and over again, my hon. Friends have stressed the need for proper marketing arrangements. For instance, in our debates on the Horticulture Act, 1960, we stressed that the Horticultural Marketing Council, which was then to be set up, should have some powers and opportunities to deal with imports and advise the Government. Our recommendation was rejected, and we know the sad history. The Horticultural Marketing Council has now died and there is no body to take its place. Are we to have a statutory authority? What do the Government propose to do, particularly in relation to the provision of wholesale markets, to give just one example?

There has been prolonged delay in deciding what to do about Covent Garden Market, arousing criticisms even from right hon. Gentlemen opposite. Now that a decision has been reached to go to Nine Elms, what do the Government intend to do? Are we to have a regional plan for wholesale markets in central London and outer London? We have waited too long already. These are vital questions affecting not only London, but many other parts of the country.

What about existing marketing schemes? Are the Government satisfied that they are adequate? For instance, what is to be the position of the Egg Marketing Board and what are its powers to be? Are we to have a wider scheme? The industry is now facing a critical period when there could be considerable over-production and many of our small producers could go out of business. What do the Government propose to do?

Now, the main issue, imports. The Government have sought to co-ordinate imports with home production according to the terms of the 1964 Act, but is the Minister proposing to create some real machinery for this purpose? Last May, he declared in this Chamber that machinery would, perhaps, have to be adapted or adopted. He said: The detailed arrangements for the different commodities which we would aim to agree with our overseas suppliers might well need to include: a body to keep under review the level of supplies and also the phasing of those supplies in our markets in the light of changes in the pattern here and overseas and other factors such as the opening up of new markets."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 22nd May, 1963; Vol. 678, c. 449.] I admit that he went on to say that it might be unwise then to decide on the machinery before we could see clearly what its task would be. Can he now see clearly? Are we to have some new machinery? All we get from the right hon. Gentleman is a silly gibe at the Labour Party's proposals on commodity commissions.

I remind the right hon. Gentleman that the National Association of Corn and Agricultural Merchants and the compound feedingstuff manufacturers have had something to say about this. I shall not quote from their documents—they have been submitted to hon. Members on both sides—but these very important bodies in the industry have come out in favour of a commodity commission. I admit that they do not want a trading commission, but they do require some new machinery. So far, the Government have done nothing; they have merely said, "We will enlarge part of the Civil Service". Are we to have new administrative machinery to match the implications of the new legislation which has been brought forward? This is a vital question.

What do the Government intend as regards the structure of the industry? They have spoken with two voices. The Minister seems to suffer from schizophrenia, wishing, on the one hand, to give aid to small farmers, while, on the other, wishing to squeeze them out. This has been the effect of the Government's policy, of course, and we have seen what has happened. What does the right hon. Gentleman intend to do for many of our small farmers in the hill farm areas? We must examine closely some of the difficulties created by his review of the cow subsidy, for instance. What sort of development scheme are we to have for our hill areas?

As for the poultry industry, do the Government intend to sit back and see large monopolies dominating the scene? This is an industry which shows the features of both vertical and horizontal integration to a large extent. Is the Egg Marketing Board to be given powers? Is the small producer to be finally driven out? Do the Government intend to encourage more producer co-operation, and when will they get a move on with marketing? Are there to be credit facilities, as we suggest in our policy document, through the creation of a new credit agency backed by the Treasury? This is a vial question for many of our small producers. Is the National Agricultural Advisory Service to be expanded? The industry wants to know.

Lastly, what is the Government's attitude towards wider international questions? Some time ago, the National Farmers' Union produced a very imaginative farm and food policy, a policy approved by producers at their national conference. I want a new world authority. Although we see within parts of the Western World the accumulation of great surpluses, millions of our fellow beings are still starving. As the late Ernest Bevin once said, we can never have peace out of hunger. How right he was! The tractor and the plough become more important than the machine gun and the tank. This is where we want more British initiative. It is not idealism. I want a world food board for sound, practical reasons. We should have a world food board to stabilise the prices of agricultural commodities on the world's markets, including the provision of the necessary funds for the stablising operation. Secondly, we want a world food board to establish a world food reserve adequate for any emergency. Thirdly, we want it to provide funds for financing the disposal of surplus agricultural products.

There is now a world food programme organisation, but I want this body to cooperate also with organisations concerned with international credits for agricultural and industrial production and development. In my view, this is a "must". It is the sort of thing which a Minister of Agriculture, backed by an imaginative Government, should be doing at United Nations level. It is vitally important because, in the end, whatever we do as regards our own production policy at home must be matched with developments elsewhere.

I want an organisation of this kind to supervise international commodity agreements. I want this country to have a confrontation of its own policy with other national policies in O.E.C.D. and also with Commonwealth countries. I want the limited agreements, such as the Bacon Agreement and the agreements we have with New Zealand and Australia, to be supervised by this wider organisation.

What do the Government intend to do? The simple fact is that they have done nothing. For these reasons, we say that the Government have followed a policy of indecision, have had no imagination, and can be removed only by going to the electorate.